Joe for America

AN OPEN LETTER: To the parents of the victims murdered by Elliot Rodger.

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I’m not talking here about the three tragic murders Rodger committed by stabbing before his driving and shooting spree; I speak now only to the families of the gunshot victims in Santa Barbara:

It’s a tragedy.

I am sorry you lost your child. I myself have a son and daughter and the one thing I never want to go through, is what you are going through now. But:

As harsh as this sounds – your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.

Richard Martinez, whose son (Christopher) was among the murdered, choked back tears at a news conference, blaming politicians the next day: “The talk about gun rights. What about Chris’ right to live?” Martinez said – and much more.

There are no critical words for a grieving father. He can say whatever he wants and blame whoever he’d like – it’s okay by me. You can’t take a step in his shoes – at least I can’t.

But the words and images of Mr. Martinez blaming “the proliferation of guns”, lobbyists, politicians, etc.; will be exploited by gun-grab extremists as are all tragedies involving gun violence and the mentally ill by the anti-Second Amendment Left.

As a father, husband and a man, it is my responsibility to protect my family. I will stand up for that right vehemently. Please believe me, as a father I share your grief and I will pray for you and your family, as I do whenever I hear about senseless tragedies such as this.

We still have the Right to Bear Arms and I intend to continue to speak out for that right, and against those who would restrict it – even in the face of this horrible incident by this sad and insane individual. I almost said “Obama Voter” but I’m waiting for it to be official.

I noticed the mainstream media have stopped the practice of immediately reporting the psycho maniac is a conservative Tea Party Republican Christian. Guess they’re sick of having to hide being wrong every time when it comes out the whacko votes Democrat?

Mr. Martinez and anyone calling for more restrictions on American’s rights need to back off and stop playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends.

They don’t care about your family or  your dead children at all. They sound like they do, whereas I sound uncaring and like I say, harsh. Don’t be fooled – I care about your family and mine. The future of our very liberty lies in the balance of this fight.

In conclusion, I cannot begin to imagine the pain you are going through, having had your child taken away from you. However, any feelings you have toward my rights being taken away from me, lose those.

Sincerely;

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher

PS: To the parents of Elliot Rodger’s stabbing victims: I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m sick to death every damn time I turn around and some poor soul with obvious violent mental sickness is allowed to exact this kind of pain on a family.

Elliot Rodger deserved help, yes – but your child deserved so much more. I’m very sorry and sad for you.

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  • LogicNotHuff

    AWESOME WEBSITE! GLAD I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS!! LOVE YOU, JOE!! YOU ARE THE MAN!! MOLON LABE!!

  • Rtgh123

    Right on, Joe! Who cares about dead kids as long as we have our guns!

    • zombiekiller117

      Who cares about non-Whites murdering innocent White children as long as the murder victims are White.
      If the police had been present at the time of the shootings how would the police have stopped the murders ? By using their guns, SILLY.
      It seems you don’t want White people to defend themselves from Anti-White violence because you are Anti-White and support White Genocide.

      • Rtgh123

        Exactly!

  • Rtgh123

    I know Joe is dumb, but I didn’t realize that he’s so disgusting.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    as usual, a ratinal comment from Joe W.

  • Andrew

    Trying to pick a fight with 350,000,000 people are ye, Joe? Fine – where are you hiding out? Thought you wanted to fight, not hide. What’s it to be, Joe?
    I heard you’re a bush league plumber, who can’t even solder pipes. I heard you got relegated to supervisor status because of you’re poor plumbing abilities. True or no, Joe?
    How do you sleep wherein you hide, Joe?
    Dead kids ain’t nothing to you, eh Joe?

    • zombiekiller117

      So because a non-White murdered White children all other White children must be rendered defenceless by disarming their parents ?
      You are one sick Anti-White….

  • Mel Cardonell

    that does seem to be a common denominator,yet main stream medis hardly considers the possibility of the link between these drugs and the killings
    what about the three who were stabbed to death..guess you really dont need guns if you are hell bent on taking lives..but all the news will be about the shooting victims..ironic,maybe if just one of those victims of this horrible crime were armed with a gun..this tragedy might have been minimized or averted altogether

  • Rockin Robin

    It was clearly the parents fault!! I have a son too and I am on top of him, literally! I know when hes happy sad ect….. Thank God hes normal but we as parents are responsible for our childs actions no matter how old they are !!!

  • grrretchen

    Can someone please help me? I have been searching the internet to see if Joe the Plumber has been interviewed and confronted about writing this. If anyone has seen him admit it please post and direct me to where I can find that interview. I’m not saying he didn’t write it. I just find it hard to believe he could. Thank you

  • Bob G

    What ever happened to all of the mental institutions across the country? They were all shut down. Why? Because special needs people need to live among the populace? And over active kids need medication rather than supervision and parental control? Oh forgive me, mom and dad need to pursue careers rather than raise a child. Laugh all you want at the fifties and sixties but, we didn’t kill one another for sport and none of my friends were on drugs, legal or illegal. The only way you got clap and got high was deep in the inner city among the colored people. My, my, How life has changed.

  • ron44

    To those lunatics on the left. The NRA has been around for many years even back when they trained kids in schools to use guns. There was no problems with shooters back then and there wan’t a problem until the Dept. of Education introduced drugs into schools to control children. They used drugs to keep the kids quiet to make their jobs easier. The result is the Teachers teamed up with drug companies and psychiatrists to push their drugs all over this country.. You ask why we have guns? To protect ourselves from the lunatics that were created by this. You see the examples daily by those who turned their children into zombies willing to attack ever one and hurt animals in their vicinity.

  • http://ilogos1.blogspot.com/ Logos

    I mean, I just don’t know how you could say that you care about someones children, but then make the statement: “Your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights”. As valid as his argument may be, this is not what I would consider someone who represents respect or care for an individual.

    And the statement “It’s not about right and left. It’s about right and wrong,” is contradicting when you make other statements calling Americans “obama-voters” and democrats (This is looking at arguments in a “right”, and “left” view, when in reality there are more than two sides to a coin.)

    I already know I will receive a hundred negative comments for this post, because of the audience of this website, but it is my opinion. I respect the opinion (2nd Ammendment) of this person, but I respect the person more. If we are going to find any common ground it needs to be through morality. A trait that I just find lacking in this person’s articles…

    Finally, because there are many perspectives and variables to this disaster I know that contention will run high. But I feel that we should all agree that those persons who are mentally unstable should not have open access to guns, and that some compromise would be healthy and appropriate given the recent circumstances in our society.

    • Bill Hughes

      You are probably correct about the number of negative comments but no one will really know for sure because the PC police have apparently worked their way into sites such as this one where the number of negative comments are not shown but the positive comment totals are shown. Just another way in which the media controls the lives of “Normal” folks.

  • Sagebrush6

    Guns aren’t the poblem, Democrats are the problem. All of the mass shooters have been associated with the Democrat party one way or another.

  • Zebowillis

    So Liberals are mad because the mother of one the victims of Benghazi is going after Hillary and they say the republicans are using her to score political points, while they are using the grief of the father of one of the victims of Elliot (why couldn’t his mom have been one of Kermit Gosnells patients) Rodgers to score political points and they don’t see the hypocrisy?

  • MontanaMade

    I heard the father’s plea, and it was painful- but what I didn’t hear was why wasn’t there stricter hand tool laws? Why was someone allowed to legally buy, and USE, a machete and a hammer to kill people for heaven’s sake??! All I heard was “guns” this and “more control” that.

    If this is a “shooting spree”, as the media calls it, why can we not also call it a kniving/cutting spree? or a hammer spree? Let’s try this: Let’s call it a killing spree- by an obviously very sick individual that needed more than the 2 psychiatrists that he was already seeing.

  • http://ImpeachImposterBarry.com/ JusticeJuice

    Elliott killed 5 men and 2 women, so ask yourself – who was he really angry with? Count the bodies again.

    • Zebowillis

      he was angry because he’s a product of a liberal upbringing that tells him that he’s entitled to whatever he wants cause he’s a special special little person. I wish his mom had been a patient of Kermit Gosnell.

  • Jim

    “I almost said “Obama Voter” but I’m waiting for it to be official.”

    Gross, dude. Just gross. You might want to look up the metaphysical concept of shame and try applying it to your daily life.

  • Daffy2009

    Joe the Plumber writes: “… There are no critical words for a grieving father… ”

    An understandable sentiment… but I have seven words for the grieving father… “Your grief does not make you right”
    Harsh? Perhaps…but it’s the truth.

  • Sandy99

    Why did you feel the need to insert yourself in this tragedy, JTP? Nobody is taking away your damned guns or even trying to and you know it. And yes, the parents grief TRUMPS your insensitive and crass and putrid opinion.

    • http://ImpeachImposterBarry.com/ JusticeJuice

      You are 100% wrong again, sandy. No one’s grief trumps our bill of rights, idiot. Fck you for even suggesting such an outrageous moronic view.

    • MontanaMade

      No, the father’s grief certainly does NOT trump the Constitution!! Ask all those that dies to protect it! Oh wait, you can’t because they died for those freedoms contained in it. The father is trying very hard to take guns away, and my guess? He’s going to spend the rest of his life trying to do so! You are so far off base here, it’s almost sickening…

    • Zebowillis

      When the father claimed that his son died because of the 2nd amendment and that I should lose my right cause he lost his kid, is when we all earned the right to step in. You liberals attempting to parlay a horrible tragedy aren’t going to get to do it this time.

    • zombiekiller117

      Why are Joe’s guns damned ?
      Looks like another psychopath who would rather see a person murdered than a murderer shot.

  • Carolyn Buck

    Guns don’t killed people some one has to pull the trigger, if they out law guns then only criminals will have guns, i hate what the guy did. My son was murder the way Jimmy die plus 2 others who were living with Jimmy, the way that they murer Jimmy i wish they would have shot Jimmy.

  • Shrdlu42

          Spare us your crocodile tears. There is indeed right and wrong, and you’re wrong!

    • Zebowillis

      who? Who is wrong? The murderer who used knives and guns? or the people whose rights are being threaten because of insane people. How about this if we give up the second amendment will you give up the 1st?

  • Jonathon Robert Cowley

    I hope this guy is at least a good plumber.

    • Shrdlu42

            Actually, his name’s not Joe, and he was never a plumber. But facts don’t matter to people like him.

      • Juggy Brodleteen

        I believe his middle name is Joseph, and I also believe he was a plumber. I’m not saying that as a show of solidarity with this horrible screed of his. But, facts are facts.

        • paulli

          He worked as a plumber, but then it came out that he wasn’t licensed or had even completed an apprenticeship. So now he’s an auto factory worker. But don’t worry, he has a gun, so he feels powerful and manly even though his career (and marriage) we’re failures. I only know this because I couldn’t understand how someone could be so insensitive and untimely. Little research and it was clear that Joe is a bitter broken failure of a man. He needs other people to hurt because he feels inadequate and insecure.

          • ldenton

            Attack the messenger, right? You can’t argue facts, that’s for sure.

          • Jonathon Robert Cowley

            Well everything he said is untrue, so there’s that as well.

          • Zebowillis

            No he wants you to keep your damn rights instead of pissing them away to make you feel safe while the criminals still keep the guns you stupid liberal.

          • Jonathon Robert Cowley

            That sounds about right. I mean, how can a black man be president when he, a white man of all people, doesn’t even have a job? It just doesn’t make sense. Right? :/

  • kugelmum

    This site is discussing the tragedy and at the same time advertising guns and highlighting inappropriate message to our President . What kind of society are we becoming. No respect for anyone. Zero.

    Enter to win the Family Gun Package Giveaway!
    Read more at http://joeforamerica.com/2014/05/open-letter-parents-victims-murdered-elliot-rodger/#xwSC8Ba5WwHVtMMl.99

    • http://ImpeachImposterBarry.com/ JusticeJuice

      A normal person would read this story and arm himself and his family. Your reaction isn’t normal. And who gives a flying rat’s azz what our president thinks? Unless he can make money off this story, he doesn’t care.

    • Zebowillis

      Good for them. Cause they were already sponsoring the giveaway before the murders using knives and guns.

  • mmmjv

    What’s with this gun giveaway? I thought Joe only had 8 guns and that wasn’t enough and now he’s giving them away?

  • anarchyst

    We are constantly reminded that “we should not judge ALL muslims by the actions of a few”. Should not the same criteria be applicable to law-abiding gun owners??
    It seems that honest gun owners are constantly demonized for criminal misuse of an inanimate object.
    The Second Amendment to the Constitution is a God-given RIGHT–NOT a “privilege”.

    • Denni A

      wrong, “rights” have nothing to do with some manifested esoteric being, “rights” is a human construct. if you took the time to read through the pages many here commended and applauded responsible gun owners who deplored this ill-conceived attempt at garnering another attention-grabbing 15 minutes of fame.

      • Zebowillis

        Wow, you are incredibly stupid. Please save room in the gulag when you’re liberal collectivist take you away.

    • Juggy Brodleteen

      I’m pretty sure nowhere outside the Constitution did God ever declare that humans have a “right” to have guns. It’s a “human-decided” right, not “God-given”… that’s just silly.

      • anarchyst

        You are wrong. It appears that you have never read the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence.
        The constitution grants NO “rights”, but LIMITS government interference in basic human rights.
        “Congress shall pass NO laws . . .”
        “The right of the people to keep and bear arms. . . shall NOT be infringed”
        “The right of the people to be secure in their houses, papers . .”
        All of our rights are ordained by OUR CREATOR and are NOT negotiable.
        I suggest you educate yourself . . . Hillsdale College offers free courses on the Constitution.
        Best regards,

        • Zebowillis

          asking a liberal to learn the constitution is impossible. They are too stupid too.

          • zombiekiller117

            What I don’t get is why people just don’t move to a country that has different laws regarding firearms ? I mean there are plenty of countries in the World and many different laws. Don’t like the laws of where you live, simply move somewhere else. I know it is nearly impossible to legally own a gun in Mexico, so why not move there if you disagree with the laws of USA ?

        • Juggy Brodleteen

          Again, the only evidence you have that you have been endowed with inalienable rights by your Creator is the document that says you have been endowed with inalienable rights by your Creator. This is called circular logic.

          *I* suggest *you* educate yourself in the fundamentals of logic, so that you can make rational arguments.

          • Zebowillis

            By the way was Martin Luther King using circular logic when he said that blacks deserved civil rights based on that same reading of the our founding documents? This is why liberals need to be quiet. You guys and your disdain for the very thing that gives you freedom. I’m sensing great hate from you. You should leave. GO to man given rights. Like Britain. All their rights come from the King, a man. or the queen in this case. See in the past, that time before now, which you probably weren’t taught because liberals never learn history, all right were man given. Yeah very true of you. The King gave rights. And the king could take those rights away. Our Founders being so much smarter than any liberal ever decided to take from the King that right and put it those rights in Gods hands. They said a king (you know a man) cannot take those rights from us if they are given to us by God. Let me stop, cause i’m blowing your mind and give you a little bit of logic. Before Communism, and Socialism there was Monarchism as the great enemy of freedom. Kings would claim divine right. So what our founder did was say “if the King get’s his divine right from God then what rights we have therefore come God”. Take a breath, it’s going to be okay. That sharp pain in your head is your liberalism being hit with fact. It’s in shock but you’ll get over it.After 9/11 there was a rush to make us feel safe, if our rights are so easily taken away because as liberals believe then we would have no bill of rights anymore. People are scared little animals who will surrender rights for security. But when those are given by god they fight harder for them. So take your liberalism away from my rights. I know you democrats and liberals have no time for any rights you don’t give us but you don’t give us rights. The government doesn’t give us rights. You liberals need to figure this out soon.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            You are full of assumptions, my friend. At no point did I ever say that I don’t agree with our rights, that I don’t value them, or that I want to get rid of them. I understand the concept of humans having specific rights, and I understand the concept of putting together a system of laws and rules that insures those rights are protected. I never said the Constitution grants us our rights, and I fully understand that it is worded in a way that *protects* the rights we already have.

            But – and here’s where you’re missing my point entirely – the *list* of rights that the Constitution enumerates was chosen by men, not by a Creator. THIS is the claim I’m making. Only the Declaration of Independence even mentions endowment of these rights by a Creator, and the Declaration is not the law of the land. What was chosen to be enumerated as rights that the Constitution will protect was selected by men. We have no indication outside of the choices the framers made that this list is complete or even accurate…other than we all agree to see it as such. Again, these ideas are a human construct, one we’ve all chosen to accept and live with (for good reason), but that doesn’t mean it’s anything more than that.

      • Zebowillis

        We are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. You idiot liberals cannot even be bothered to read the documents upon which the country was founded.

        • Juggy Brodleteen

          You just can’t seem to get your point across without insulting people, can you?

          The only evidence we have that people have been endowed by their “creator” with inalienable rights is the document that says that people have been endowed by their “creator” with inalienable rights. You fail to see the circular logic in your argument. There is no other evidence, outside of the political writings of the framers, that God has endowed you with the inalienable right to keep and bear arms. In fact, the only place that you can reference for what God has chosen to endow you with is the Bible, and I bet you dollars to donuts you won’t find “guns” mentioned there. It might say that you should “take up the sword” for various reasons, or to pelt people with stones for certain wrongdoings, but that’s about it.

          Saying that you have magical properties called “rights” from the moment you were conceived doesn’t make it so. In the real world, we know that “rights” are man-made constructs, a philosophical idea and nothing more. We’re all grateful for these ideas, don’t get me wrong, but let’s not ascribe more power to them then they really have.

          • Zebowillis

            Are you a liberal?

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Yes, but I’m not an idiot. I’m sorry to disappoint you.

          • Zebowillis

            I’m figuring you’re a liberal cause you have that douchy quality that liberals have. Man made rights can be taken away man. So which right would give up to take away the 2nd. The 1st? Would you give up the first. No speech, no assembly, no religion. I’m sure you’d be willing to give up religion but since it’s one amendment you lose all of them. How about the 4th? would you like to have the government be able to come into your house whenever you wanted? I mean the case could be made that we don’t a 4th anymore, but the pretense of it makes us feel good. How about the 5th, you know the right to due process. How about that one? surely you trust the government to not arrest you and keep you in jail indefinitely. Poor Lois Lerner would have to testify and that might make someone real high look bad but… well you really want to get rid of 2nd so you gotta trade. How about the 6th. Sit in jail forever no speedy trial because it takes a really time to get all the evidence, or good old soviet style show trials(I know you’re a lefty and you love those soviet show trials). What about the 8th bring back upside down crucifixions. Good old torture. oooh number 9. Did you know that the right to privacy is not and enumerated right. Enumerated means written, It’s a right that you get out because of the accumulation of all the other rights. So no more abortion for you liberals. You won’t be able to pull a baby out of the womb and snip it’s neck with a pair of scissors. I know how you guys love that. Or the 14th or the 15th. Bring back slavery and screw equal protection and citizenship for blacks. Which will you give up? How about the 19th, cause some women vote republican too and that’s something you guys hate. How about the 16th. Bet you don’t know what that one’s about. I’ll give you hint. Taxes. will you trade that one. It’s got to one of these. Not the prohibition or the one that makes Senator directly elected. Gotta be one about rights. Since they’re man made rights you should have no problem.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Well, that is one heck of a tirade. I’m not sure what you’re on about, since I *never once* suggested any rights be taken away, not even the 2nd Amendment. So you’ve wasted a lot of words for no reason, based on your (incorrect) assumptions. But, that really is the problem, isn’t it? You hear the world “liberal” or “Democrat” and you FREAK OUT and can’t stop all the WHARGLEBARGLE from coming out. At no point in any of this have you said anything useful, helpful, or meaningful. You’ve insulted, you’ve drawn false conclusions, and you’ve ranted excessively about nothing that anyone has said or suggested. For example, you have yet to prove to me that “inalienable rights” are proven to be a real thing, with which we are really endowed by our Creator, outside of the circular logic “This information in this document is true because this information is in this document.”

          • Jonathon Robert Cowley

            Sure. If people don’t have guns, we absolutely have to cancel ALL of the amendments. That makes sense. I see that now.

          • zombiekiller117

            Don’t worry, nobody is forcing you to have a gun.

      • zombiekiller117

        Are you really claiming God has ordained that we can’t defend ourselves from rapists and murderers ? I hope you really believe that because if you don’t you have just blasphemed the name of God.

  • anarchyst

    in EVERY mass-shooting, the perpetrator has been on some type of psychotropic drug “cocktail” and is a card-carrying democrat.
    Maybe “party affiliation” should be used to prohibit democrats from owning firearms .

    • Denni A

      and you invariably picked this fact-less-based garbage from fox and friends.

    • mmmjv

      No, they have NOT been all card carrying Democrats. That is a lie started by the rightwingers. There is however one did all of these shooters had in common, they all had guns and they all knew how to use them.

    • Greta42

      Outright LIES and propaganda. Go to Fox if that’s all you have.

    • Renee Goodwin

      They had to back down from that statement because it was a lie, most of the shooters have not been Democrats.

    • Juggy Brodleteen

      Well, you’re wrong. In “EVERY mass-shooting,” the perpetrator has NOT ALWAYS been on some type of psychotropic drug cocktail and they most definitely have NOT ALWAYS been card-carrying democrats. Go see the article “All Mass Murderers are Democrats” elsewhere on this site to see just how grossly inaccurate that claim is.

      • http://ImpeachImposterBarry.com/ JusticeJuice

        In all the big ones in the past 4 years, it’s been a lazy-eyed democrat liberal piece of puke.

        • Juggy Brodleteen

          Well, as has been discussed elsewhere ad nauseam, this simply isn’t a true statement. Given your propensity to reduce the discussion to insulting language rather than worrying about annoying things like, I don’t know…*facts*… demonstrates the continuation of a common theme among conservatives. I believe the strategy is called, “Let’s ignore reality and be really pissed off and call everyone who doesn’t agree with our views names.”

          • http://ImpeachImposterBarry.com/ JusticeJuice

            You are wrong. And you belittle posters, too. Hypocrite. All this because no one trusted you with a gun and taught you not to fear it, or else you’re just a punk shooting his mouth off, in a room full of responsible gun owners. You’ll get buried every time, snot nose

          • Zebowillis

            Like how liberals call conservatives names… Fair is fair liberal.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Of course, I don’t consider “liberal” to be a derogatory name. I’ll wear that label with pride.

            Fair is fair, eh? Haven’t you ever heard the saying “two wrongs don’t make a right?” Do you find it more reasonable to continue to stoop to a lower level because, hey, everyone else does, than to rise above and take a higher road?

          • Zebowillis

            Yeah I do. because if it show liberals how liberals act then yeah I’ll do it. You know who Ben Carson or Allen West are? they are Black Conservatives. And if you disagree with them then that makes you a racist. According to liberals disagreement with a black person is only based on racism. You remember Sarah Palin. You’re a sexist if you don’t think she worthy of running for the president because it’s sexist to think a woman can’t be president. Al Sharpton is an Uncle Tom because he disagrees with the above mentioned black people. Elliot Rodgers grew up in liberal California, that makes it the fault of liberal policies. You don’t like Christians, that makes you a Christian-a-phobe. The Tea Party are extremists, then Occupy is a terrorist origination. If the Kochs are un-American then so is Tom Steyer. If business can’t give money to politicians then Unions can’t either. If Mitt Romney can be accused of not paying his taxes and then be told that he has to prove he didn’t then Harry Reid can be accused of molesting children and have to prove that he doesn’t still molest children. (you liberals treat republicans like child molesters so…)
            You want us to take the high road all the while dynamiting it.

      • Zebowillis

        Well socialist and communist have murdered 100 million people so far so it’s hard to tell how many of the were card carrying democrats or not. But they left wing.

        • Juggy Brodleteen

          You’re just not getting the point that the act of killing rises above simple political divisions of “right and left.” LOTS of people have killed LOTS of other people throughout history, for various reasons. Were Parsons and Tibbets or their commanders “card carrying democrats” when they dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing up to a quarter of a million people (mostly civilian)? Were Bush and his commanders “card carrying democrats” when their invasion and occupation led to the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis and US servicemen alike? Was Hitler, whose “National Socialist German Workers’ Party” (aka The Nazi Party) is widely considered to be “far right” on the political spectrum, a “card carrying democrat?”

          I know you want all of the bad guys who have ever done harm to be “socialists and communists” because that means you oppose their political views and this makes it easier to vilify them. The fact is, people from all walks of life and from all points on the political map have committed terrible atrocities, which means we have a *collective* problem that exists outside of any petty political differences.

          • Zebowillis

            Nazis were socialist. They were the right of the socialism argument and commies were the left but they were left of the American right. See the american is about small government. You ignorant non educated liberals who actually don’t know anything about politics but can’t learn to shut up should figure that out. You liberals make everything politics. Don’t get all non partisan now, when you’re side is on the wrong side of history. Oh and the Japanese earned the bombs ask the Chinese.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Again, you can only make your case through insults, which means you’re really not making a case at all.

            “Naziism” doesn’t track well to our modern definitions of “conservative” and “liberal.” In fact, “liberals” and “socialists” have represented various different positions on the political spectrum throughout history. Just because the Nazi party had the word “Socialist” in its name, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a far right group by today’s definition (which it was).

            What I find most telling about your remarks is that you assume I’m “non educated” and, more importantly, that I should learn to “shut up.” These are the remarks of someone who can’t raise a reasonable counter argument. It’s like a child saying “You’re stupid, shut up!”

          • Zebowillis

            actually you’re kinda close. I do wish you liberals would shut up. Most of you are really stupid. I’ve raised good arguments and you’ve relied good old liberal canards. If a person claims socialism they are socialist. Nazis wanted more government control, conservatives from the american right don’t want more government control. Liberals on the left want more government control. Whose closer to who? Liberals are closer to Nazis, than conservatives are. And I know liberals are uneducated because I’ve listen to them. Oh they are great at repeating what they’ve been told but that doesn’t give them critical thinking skills. See, Nazis=More Government, Liberals=More Government, Conservatives=Less Government. You are stupid and I wish you would shut up.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Calling someone “really stupid” is usually what a person says when they are confronted by logic or arguments that they fail to grasp. It usually means you don’t understand why the things I’m saying might make sense as opposed to your views, so you assume they’re “stupid” and meaningless. In other words, you don’t “understand” what I’m saying, so you waive it away as something “stupid.”

            Oh the irony.

            You claim to have raised “good arguments” and then proceed to demonstrate your knowledge of politics and history by saying Nazis=More Government, therefore Liberals are more like Nazis because Liberals also want more government. Do you have any idea how simplistic (and wrong) this view is?

            The Nazis (which is to say Hitler, specifically) was (stop me if any of these sound familiar to you):

            - Anti-Communist
            - Anti-Marxist
            - Anti-semitic
            - Anti-democratic
            - Socially Conservative
            - Extremely Nationalist (Patriotic)
            - Strongly rejected: premarital sex, prostitution, pornography, sexual vices of all kinds
            - Anti-intellectual (opposed the “intellectual elite”)
            - Anti-homosexual
            - Repeatedly spoke of Germany’s glorious past as being the key to its glorious future
            - Strongly militaristic

            I’m not seeing any “liberal” attitudes in that list. Prove me wrong.

          • Zebowillis

            liberals say they were anti-communist- liberals are racist. liberals were against gays until gays started to not give them money anymore. Liberals are antisemitic. Kerry, Carter both accused Israel of being an apartheid state. Pretty anti-Semitic there. You liberals are pretty pro-military in your speeches. SO are you admit liberals hate America? You guys aren’t very democratic. Haven’t seen the Senate vote on anything the house has passed and Obama seems to unilateral doing whatever he wants if congress doesn’t give him what he wants. You aren’t particularly intellectual unless it agrees with you. Feminists are against porn. So you got most of them. Plus Nazis were super against religion. Just like liberals. And Nazis were for heavily regulating business controlling what business did. Nazis were super into controlling capital for the State. I’ll admit that you liberals are more communist than Nazi. but you are so much closer to Nazis than a small government conservative who wants a small government with very few defined powers is. You want more government with more power and us to have less rights, and I want more rights and less government. If you got you wanted we’d have Nazis in bad election. If I get what I want, we’d never have to worry about Nazis. Oh and one last thing. Nazis when they got power do you wanna know what the first things they did was? They disarmed the people. Oh wait they were already disarmed.

          • Zebowillis

            Dude, I can’t believe you’re actually trying to convince me that Nazis aren’t left-wing. Communists and Nazis had the same exact beliefs every single one of them.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I’m just clarifying the facts. That you refuse to accept them isn’t anything I can influence or “convince.” There’s no breaking through your bubble.

          • Zebowillis

            Dude I can’t actually believe you’re trying to say that you’re not in anyway shape or form related to Nazis. The Nazis are a creature of the left. I’m sorry to tell you this but they are. You can take everything that you put on that list and substituted for communist or Marxist and they will be the same thing. Communist hey did you. Communist hated Christians. Communist were fiercely nationalistic during the war. Communist hated Jews. Communist hated pornographic prostitution modern sexual moors. Communist punished homosexuality with imprisonment and death. Everything on that list you could seriously substitute communist for Nazis. Are you telling me that you don’t know this. And what’s worse is communist are known to be responsible for the deaths of a hundred million people. But you are running from that. No you don’t want to be associated with the Nazis because they lost. If they had one you’d be cool with it. Because they are what you want which is more government less freedom. Simple. So you can your left-wing ideology that is responsible for the deaths of a hundred million people shut up. Or you can go live in that liberal utopia called Chicago where more people going down every month then or killed anywhere else. Because liberal societies produce new little liberals who don’t care, who feel like they’re entitled to whatever they want consequences be damned.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            “Dude I can’t actually believe you’re trying to say that you’re not in anyway shape or form related to Nazis.”

            So are you saying liberals like me are nazis?

            You’re simply wrong about the political equivalence that we’ve been discussing. You just keep rearranging the facts with your own preferences.

          • mmmjv

            “The Nazis are a creature of the left. I’m sorry to tell you this but they are.”

            No we’re not. Your own argument shows that

            “Communist were fiercely nationalistic during the war. . Communist hated pornography, modern sexual moors, they considered it western decadence. Communist punished homosexuality with imprisonment and death.”

            That sounds like cons to me. They’re the ones who are nationalistic, they’re the ones who are against porn and all for sexual morality. And as for communism it’s not the left that admires Putin

          • Zebowillis

            You’re a dumb liberal.Communist were all those things. Communists want more government. LIberals want more government. Conservatives want less government. We may not like gays but with less government who’s gonna arrest all the gays.

          • mmmjv

            You’re the one who’s not making sense. Your saying that liberals are communists and then as “proof” you cite CONSERVATIVE positions that the communists held. But even aside from that your claim that we’re communists because we’re against porn and for sexual morality is just unbelievably absurd

        • Jonathon Robert Cowley

          Please cite your sources.

  • drew

    Just as we humbly accept the seemingly high numbers of traffic fatalities
    as a defacto price for technology, innovation and the ability to move from
    A to B with greater speed and comfort, and refuse to re-gress to the days
    of the mule and cart; We also humbly accept the seemingly high numbers of
    fatalities in random and sporadic occurrences, as a defacto cost of the
    Natural Right to Keep and Bear Arms. I would happily accept this cost,
    over the astronomical and unforeseen cost of handing over our rights, and
    allowing the most vain, most corrupt and most ambitious of us to have a
    monopoly of violence in this country and degrading a nation of Free Men
    back down to the status of subjects and slaves.

    History has shown that Civilian disarmament leads to public tyranny. I would
    rather deal with the sporadic violence, and bandages for handfuls of citizens,
    than the socialists gulags and the genocide of whole peoples. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms, although archaic and seemingly barbaric to the more
    gentile of us, is the one thing, the last element that keeps our elected
    representatives, despite their many platitudes and soft whispers of
    nothingness, from totally screwing over this country. To the would be
    tyrant, the thought that haunts them in their dreams, is the same
    nightmare that haunted all tyrants in the past, and stolen their sleep,
    that nightmare, is the people having the ability to take back what has
    been taken from them. This is why tyrants disarm ‘their’ people. It is not
    about guns, it is not about crime, it is everything to do with control.

    So long as my people are armed, although some may misuse them, and we
    hear of horrible headlines of people disarmed in gun free zones who are unable to
    defend themselves. This is far better than to have those who are most
    corrupt and entrenched in power to have misused their own arms, and there
    will be no headlines to follow as truth will be next to die, concerning a
    whole people disarmed in a national ‘gun free zone’, unable to defend
    themselves against that which they were warned about.

    “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
    liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”- Thomas Jefferson,
    to Archibald Stewart (23 December 1791).

    • Steve-P

      comparing guns to cars is just stupid. I love the right wing word sandwich, but it’s dumb. Cars aren’t made to kill. Guns are. Cars aren’t the weapon of choice for mass killings. Like cars which evolved from horse and buggies, guns evolved from muskets to what they are today. Engineering marvels, amazing pieces of equipment. But available to anyone. Cars have other purpuses. Guns are made to kill people — don’t believe me join the Marines and say they’re for self defense. They’ll laugh you out of the service. Their to KILL. Cars require you have insurance, a drivers licence. Cars must be registered and safety inspections. Guns require none of that. So give me a break. If you were honest and believe what you preach then post what the moron who wrote this column did. Write that you will put up with kids having their brains blown out and parents lives shattered so that you can score some pathetic right wing political points. You are a coward and a moron drew. Our country is going to hell in a hand basket because of fools like you. I served my country during war. I vote. Hell, I voted for Reagan. But I’ve never seen such moronic comments as what you have written. We don’t need gun free zones. We need zones to keep fools like you from the sane.

      • Denni A

        well Steve, I’ll wager my house your comment “blew him away” to smithereens (pun intended).

      • ldenton

        So, guns are made simply to kill people? Really? Tell that to hunters.
        Just about any tool we use can be used as a weapon – including cars. Three of the victims were killed with a hammer and a machete.
        The military weapons you used are a little different from the guns used by average citizens. Comparing what the military does to the civilian use of guns is just as stupid as you claim comparing guns to cars is.
        Guns require registration also. My husband just acquired a rifle a few months ago and it took 2 weeks to get approval.
        Not everyone can own a gun. Just ask someone convicted of a felony.
        In the last century, 50 million people were killed by governments. None of those people were allowed to own firearms. I wonder what would have happened if the Jews had been allowed to arm themselves? I guess we’ll never know, now will we?
        Start looking at the bigger picture instead of your own little insulated life.

      • Zebowillis

        Knives were made to kill. Didn’t you know that.

        • Steve Eifert

          no kidding? really? I didn’t know that. You guys in the right probably open beers with your guns too? How stupid are you or is your argument that weak? thanks for proving my point.

    • Denni A

      no one is discussing “disarmament” …get a grip and get some help with your dysfunctional gun-fetish mentality.

    • Juggy Brodleteen

      Look at all that tyranny tearing apart the publicly disarmed western European nations! It’s tragic over there!

      Come on, at least be honest with yourself, if you can’t be honest with the rest of us.

      Also, cars have an obvious utilitarian value. The same simply cannot be said for guns.

  • Joe

    No tolerance for comments containing violence…this is immediately negated in your narrow vision of the human experience. I feel so sad for you. It’s disgusting that as a parent you can even think to write such a piece. Your “logic” basically excuses anyone who would potentially commit a violent (and potentially life ending crime) against your own children under the “pretext” of amendment rights and is one of the most inhuman pieces of writing I’ve ever had the misfortune of reading. It’s utter trash and you should really conceptualize what it would be like to lose your children before you preach to someone who has. The science is in, guns kill people. They were designed to do so and if you loved this country so much you would be assionate about controlling them to the point where someone who may indiscriminately kill your children on a collage campus wouldn’t have the opportunity to get one…cause, you never know.

    • ldenton

      I loaded a rifle and placed it by my front door. Three kids walked by heading to school. The mailman came by and delivered the mail. The garbageman did his weekly duty in my driveway. The person I hired to mow the lawn came by and did what I pay him for. Guess what? That gun didn’t kill anyone. Genius, it takes someone to pull the trigger before anyone can get killed by a gun.

  • MadMoh

    Wurzelbacher/Palin 1876

  • pearl87

    Mr. Martinez deserves only contempt for visiting his pain and tragedy against all his fellow Americans in such a dastardly attack against the foundation of our liberty. He is allowing himself to be used as a tool by the left, whose policies in limiting guns as much as they are, certainly played some part in the fact that there was no one at hand to stop this madman in his tracks as he murdered. The fewer law abiding citizens have guns, the more ALL of us will be at risk wherever we are. I am disgusted with those who try to use these incidents to lobby for disarming the citizens. Shame on Richard Martinez. His politically correct histrionics in front of the camera make me doubt that he even stopped to legitimately grieve the loss of his son.

    • Greta42

      What a completely stupid comment void of compassion and full of NRA talking points.

    • Denni A

      you are the prime example of how sick and insane this country has become infected with the gun-fetish madness that guns have more value than people.

      instead of deriding you I feel pity for your sickness.

      • Zebowillis

        it’s not a gun fetish you twisted loon. The vaunted right to privacy is based on the 1st 2nd 4th 5th amendments. Lose one you weaken the other. are you that stupid?

  • Mark Brookhart

    Joe, what this mentally ill 22 year old did was commit suicide by terrorism. It wasn’t guns that killed those people on the street, it was a product of a liberal socialist privileged education. It wasn’t knives that killed the other three victims. It was a product of doctors using drugs to treat what good parenting and teaching limits and responsibility in the 21 years prior could have prevented.

  • glennisw

    Stupid, hateful, and indecent. Not-Joe, you hit the trifecta.

    • pearl87

      I think you are describing yourself and all proglibs.

      • Greta42

        It describes you to a T.

  • Ravi32

    You can bet every one of those three he killed with hammer and knife would wish they had a gun.
    We have about 1,200 non criminals murdered by gun in the US each year and about two million murders, rapes, robberies and other crimes prevented with guns by civilians.

  • labman57

    Sam “My name really isn’t Joe and I’m not really a plumber” Wurzelbacher is a spotlight-seeking opportunistic political poseur, desperately in search of something relevant to say … you know, kinda like Sarah Palin.

  • TruthAlone

    For those of you who think Ritalin causes these behaviors, think again. My son took Ritalin in school to learn and has served as a missionary in Zambia and now serves as a missionary with his wife in Nepal. How are the murderers raised and do they know or follow Jesus Christ?

    • Ravi32

      And gallup says there are 90 million gun owners meaning owning a gun is a much lower risk fact than 100 others
      BTW About 12% of people on such drugs and they commit approximately 70% of crime not attributed gang membership or criminal activity

    • pearl87

      Not everyone reacts to drugs in the same way. Psychotropic drugs are dangerous and have unforeseeable consequences, including homicide and suicide, for many who use them.

  • sunnycali

    I would hope that you wouldn’t delete my post but since it doesn’t agree with the majority here, I would assume that it will be.

    No one – that’s right – NO ONE is talking about taking away guns. If you believe that, please provide verifiable truth that someone is coming after your guns. What IS needed, however, is better background checks, periodic licensing, education, and psychological testing. Just like every law officer has to go through before he or she can carry and use a weapon while on the job.

    If you don’t believe that gun owners should have to go through what law enforcement has to, then I would have to question you: why not? Are you afraid you couldn’t pass the test?

    • Helen Wheels

      These gunnutz were convinced by Fox Noise that Obama’s gonna come take their guns, and they stupidly believe it. Maybe many of them (what I’ve always suspect) are actually mentally ill and don’t go for the background check thing. In any case, they aren’t too bright and it looks like all they can do is spend time having meltdowns about their precious guns. How sad for society.

      • Ravi32

        uhm, 5% f men support gun control and 58% of women do. 6% of men don’t know gun murder and gun crime has massively declined to , and 60% of women don’t know this.
        As Pew Research found, gun control attitudes directly reflect false perceptions on danger.
        Don’t blame fox, blame huff Post and CNN whose readers are essentially trailer park level on the issue

    • Ravi32

      Do you believe in background checks, periodic license, education and testing before anyone is allowed due process, Miranda, a jury trial or a defense attorney?
      given 90% of US murder is people who are already criminals, do you think we should allow juries or due process fore anyone who cant; pass a test or show on a background check they have never been involved in crime?

    • Don in Tennessee

      The Second Amendment ends with four words and should be honored. “shall not be infringed”. That means no laws restricting gun ownership or carrying of guns. That Amendment is a God given right that is protected by the Constitution. If you don’t like it, take it up with God. I WILL protect my family, property, myself and others with deadly force when necessary. You can pass all the laws you want to, and I will continue to keep and bear arms.

      • Steve-P

        it’s not God given, you moron. God didn’t write the constitution. You are a fool.

        • ldenton

          We have a God-given right to defend ourselves.

    • pearl87

      I don’t believe in any of this because I believe our Constitution guarantees that everyone has the right to defend himself with a firearm. If someone demonstrates that he is a danger to himself or others, he should be put into an institution where he can be kept safely. I do not own a gun, but I believe it is my right and the right of every free person to do so.

  • NameNotGiven

    he killed half the victims with hammer and knife. register hammers and knives?

    • Peegan

      The number of people killed by hammers and knives is a joke compared tongun deaths. Also, hammers and knives have primary uses beyond killing a living creature.

      • NameNotGiven

        actually it is more than gun murder.

        gum murder of non criminals and non gang members in the USA per year 1.800

        • Helen Wheels

          Nope.

          • Ravi32

            Nope to what? the 1,800 is the maximum the BJS found in the government studies. it is 1,200 to 1,800 murders of people not in gangs or drug business or multiple prior arrests (career criminals).
            If you are not dealing drugs in a gang or a career criminal you are at lower risk of being murdered in the US than most of the developed world

    • Helen Wheels

      Duhhhh doyyyyy really?

      • Ravi32

        well?

  • NameNotGiven

    keep criminals in jail and 90% of US murder ends.

  • Helen Wheels

    Hey Sam, take a lil’ read, since I’m sure you’re not brave enough to speak to Mr. Martinez face to face: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/05/christopher-michael-martinezs-father-gets-it-right.html

    • forpeace

      Joe doesn’t even have the guts to face the grieving father.

      • NameNotGiven

        the grieving father is suggesting shredding the constitution.

        • forpeace

          Are you FAKE Dr. Frank’s replacement?

          Why do you keep repeating the same thing like a broken record?

          • NameNotGiven

            I see your prior posts indicate you believe gun murder is up. It is half of levels 20years ago as gun ownership has gone up (gallup says from 60 million to 90 million gun owners the past 30 years)

          • forpeace

            You need to get a complete eye check up because I did not post such a thing.

          • NameNotGiven

            your history is right there for anyone to see. You deny murder has plummeted

          • forpeace

            You are suffering from reading comprehension.

            Nice try!

          • NameNotGiven

            denial

          • forpeace

            Delusional.

          • NameNotGiven

            ok, lets see where gun control goes 3d printers make it a luddite movement. Why do you think most people who are for more gun control are also anti vaccine (yale 2013)?

          • Helen Wheels

            OOooh are you gonna bring up abortion and Benghazi next?

          • Ravi32

            support for more gun control ahs dropped to about 29% once people learned the facts

          • forpeace

            You LIE and you FAIL.

            Keep trying.

        • Helen Wheels

          It won’t work, GWB and Darth Cheney already did it. :/

    • NameNotGiven

      Yah lots of victims relatives rant about ending Miranda, or due process. You cant blame Martinez irrationality, but it is irrational

      • Adam Wood

        I most certainly can blame his irrationality. He’s using his dead son to further a political agenda, one that he has had planned for a very long time. Martinez’s son had been dead less than twelve hours before he ran out and called a press conference to decry the NRA.

        This man is delighted that his son is now a political cause célèbre, and he should be derided accordingly.

      • Helen Wheels

        He was completely rational and 100% correct.

  • Greta42

    Well we know who is paying Samuel (not Joe) not the plumber to put this atrocity up on his blog. He tells us with the ad about entering the Family Gun Giveaway Contest. In other words, the NRA and the weapons industry.

    • Helen Wheels

      Bingo!

      • Greta42

        They are so obvious, it’s disgusting.

        • NameNotGiven

          thank the left for all the murder and mayhem. over 90%of US murder is criminals killing criminals. People the left loves cycling back on our streets
          If you are not a drug dealer, gang member of felon your risk of being murdered in the gun heavy US is LOWER than Canada or Europe.

          • Helen Wheels

            Hurrrr, durrrrrrr

          • Ravi32

            It is a fact. gun control is an anti science movement, I now but are you outright denying objective facts from the millions in government research as well?

            http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-08-31-criminal-target_N.htm
            Similar studies in Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Michigan and 12 other jurisdictions show over US 90% of murder is criminals killing criminals

  • tiredofdogma

    Way to go Wurzelheimer — capitalize on the senseless murder of others for another 15 minutes of fame and “glory”. What will you and missus weazelheimer say when some half-wit uneducated idiot tells you – your dead children don’t trump my rights. You are a despicable human being, unfit to raise children.

    • Helen Wheels

      I gotta wonder if Missus weazelheimer is smart enough to know she married a guy who’s willing to put her kids in harms’ way by owning guns.

      • NameNotGiven

        gun owning homes of non criminals are safer than unarmed homes

        • Peegan

          The numbers do not validate that statement. You are MUCH more likely to shoot a person who belongs in your house than a criminal. Why do you think the NRA wants to hide these stats.

          • NameNotGiven

            False. In the CDC study claiming so turned out that over 94% of the gun shootings at home were in the homes of active criminals and the cdc researchers did not control for that. they also counted non of the crimes prevented.

            When those controls are applied gun owning homes of persons not in gangs or active in crime, are SAFER than unarmed homes

          • Peegan

            False. The CDC does not keep accurate stats on this because there is no requirement to report them.

          • NameNotGiven

            You like most of the 1/3 (and falling) Americans who want more gun control completely without facts.

            it was precisely the debunked CDC study of 1994 which failed to control for criminals who own guns that caused them to be defunded

            The CDC did a new study ($28 dollars) in summer 2013, with an executive order funding, which showed 500,000 to three million crimes like murder, rape, assault, robbery etc are prevented each year by law abiding citizen gun owners.

            And the 904% I refer to are FBI numbers. the DOJ and FBI conduct about 40 million dollars per year in gun studies and stats

          • Peegan

            BS. I repeat, the CDC can not keep accurate stats on this as there is no requirement to report. In fact, there is legislation in congress RIGHT NOW to address this that the NRA is fighting . And learn to type faster.

          • NameNotGiven

            The CDC NEVER kept stats. The FBI does. All gun incidents. as required by law and funded to about $40 million per year

          • Ravi32

            Exactly

          • Helen Wheels

            LOL they are soooo stupid.

          • Helen Wheels

            Sorry we’re the majority. Gun nuts are deluded. Some open carry douches in TX just got shamed at a Sonic and Chipotle. People are sick of gun nuts.

          • Ravi32
          • Helen Wheels

            Did they include suicides (easy access to guns) and accidental shootings? Kinda doubt it.

          • Ravi32

            suicides don’t increase with gun ownership. There are 2o longitudinal studies that show that. The means change, ei if you own a gun your suicide is more likely to be by gun, and if you don’t own one you use a mother means — total suicide risk does not increase with gun ownership
            Japan has no guns and 50% more suicide.
            Also accidental death by guns are way less than accidental death from soccer, skiing, or owning a skateboard or bike

        • Helen Wheels

          Homes with dogs are safer than homes with guns.

          • Ravi32

            And? The fact is gun-owning homes without a gang member or prior criminal domiciled there are safer than unarmed homes

    • NameNotGiven

      you are disgusting.

      the victim’s father should not have suggested tossing the constitution. someone has to answer it.

      Almost all murder is associated with prior criminals, and people with multiple arrests who escape conviction, or are pled down to light sentences, due to constitutional rights The great majority of murder involves those people.

      Are you saying if one of the fathers of a victims of someone who got off and then killed someone, which are a much bigger number, ranted about ending or limiting due process for you and I, no one should answer that?
      The policies of the left are at the root of 90% of US murder, Keep the criminal in jail and 90% ends immediately.
      And this guy killed half his victims with a hammer and knife

    • Adam Wood

      Martinez beat that clock by a country mile. He was pushing his dead son as a political cause célèbre less than twelve hours after Christopher died.

      • tiredofdogma

        Of course you’re right. I stand corrected. I guess that makes it okay to trivialize the man’s murdered son to push a personal political agenda. I’ll kep that in mind in the future.

        • Ravi32

          Does the ACLU arguing against using crime prevention for weighing Miranda or Due process make them bad guys?

  • Helen Wheels
    • NameNotGiven

      drivel

      • Helen Wheels

        Aw, did we give you a sadz?

        • Ravi32

          The raw story article author seems to think we should listen to people who want Miranda and juries rights which kill many more people than guns

  • Helen Wheels

    Joe the Not Plumber doesn’t want lefties to politicize this before he gets a chance to.

    • NameNotGiven

      the victim’s father should not have suggested tossing the constitution. someone has to answer it.

      Are you saying if one of the fathers of a victims of someone who got off and then killed someone, which are a much bigger number, ranted about ending or limiting due process for you and I, no one should answer that?

      • Peegan

        The victims father, within hours of learning his child has been gunned down, had the right to say what ever he wanted. People, well most people, obviously not you, understood the man was in a moment of unimaginable grief. We call that empathy. Look it up.

        • forpeace

          This poster “NameNotGiven” is a lost cause and a liar too.

          He has been trying to convince me that I posted something about gun murder is up which I never did.

          • Ravi32

            Are you saying as gun ownership went from 60 million to 90 million Americans the past 30 years, and as gun murder crashed, you want to blame gun owners?

        • NameNotGiven

          Yeah and lots of people are knifed or bludgeoned without their parents suggestion tearing up the bill of rights

        • Adam Wood

          Sure, he has the right to say whatever he wanted. He also has the right to get rightly chastised for politicizing his own son’s murder.

          • Helen Wheels

            And, conversely, we have the right to consider you a craven douchecanoe.

      • Helen Wheels

        The Second Amendment calls for a trained militia, not dopey yahoos stockpiling automatic weapons out of paranoia.

        • Ravi32

          no court has agreed with that. where is the word trained?

    • Adam Wood

      Too late. Richard Martinez did that on Saturday morning. The rest of the gun-grabbing, America-hating Left had done so while people in Santa Barbara could still smell the cordite in the air,

      • Helen Wheels

        Blaming the father who’s in agony because his son just got murdered. Stay classy.

        • Adam Wood

          Defending the father who is using his murdered son as a political pawn. Stay classy.

  • Peegan

    What a repugnant human being you are. We have 6 victims of a horrific crime and yet you see yourself as the real victim here. But you aren’t. Joe the fake plumber, here are the REAL victims of this tragedy since you couldn’t even be bothered to look up their names; WEIHAN WANG, CHENG YUAN HONG, GEORGE CHEN, KATHERINE BREANN COOPER, CHRISTOPHER ROSS MICHAELS-MARTINEZ, and VERONIKA ELIZABETH WEISS. As you can see your name isn’t here. Find a rock and crawl under it.

    • Ravi32

      probably all be alive in any of Wang, Hong or Chen had had a gun and been able to stop this guy from stabbing them.
      You are repugnant and disgusting for wanting to blame the second amendment when two million murders, rapes and other crimes are prevented by legal gun owners every single year.

  • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

    i love how this a–hole acts all polite and says such nice words acting like he is a compassionate person. but then one of the first sentences he says is…
    “As harsh as this sounds – your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.” 0_0
    he goes on to say he shares in their grief, and yet all of that is negated by how he started this article. he releases this days after what has happened, and pretends like he cares, when all he cares about is not losing his precious gun.

  • majorwiblit

    LOOK: Kimye’s Wedding Photos

    more interesting than Plumber Joe’s rantings
    but hey!!,Don’t forget to,,”Enter to win the Family Gun Package Giveaway!”

    • Winky Cat

      Oh yeah, the gun giveaway! Plastered prominently within the body of the letter! Sandwiched between, “…I speak now only to the families of the victims….” and “It’s a tragedy”. Bright blue print, can’t miss it!

      • Ravi32

        most of the victims were killed or injured by knives and a car.
        Guns prevent this 18x for every murder committed with one

        • Winky Cat

          The tastelessness of having a banner inserted where it is in the attached letter, NO MATTER HOW THEY WERE KILLED, is the point here. It is an “open letter” addressing people who have lost their children in a violent manner. Advertising has NO place there!

          The banner could have been for a knife, kitten, puppy or any other giveaway, it’s tasteless and tacky inserted where it is. If you can’t understand that, your problem, not mine.

  • william davis

    Logic is thrown out when mental illness is present. This lunatic was obviously ill for a long time. Where were the parents ? I agree with most of the postings .

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      a few weeks before this the parents called the cops on their kid after seeing the youtube videos he posted. the police didnt bother searching his apartment and declared that he seemed normal. 0_0

  • Helen Wheels

    Is this satire? I’ve never seen anything this unbelievably narcissistic and grotesque. Joe-the-not-plumber couldn’t even wait ’til the bodies were cold to start politicizing this incident and using it to bring attention to his non-existent “career” (note to Joe: Your 15 minutes were up a loooooong time ago). You are actually trying to talk to a man who is in the midst of the worst grief anyone can ever imagine, because you’re paranoid the big bad gubmit’s gonna use this incident to take your penis-substitutes away? Earth to Sam: If you WERE any kind of a man or father, you would not have any guns in your household, as it has been proven statistically that most households with guns have more accidntal deaths by GUNS. SO you are (as the moron you obviously are) making your family LESS safe by having guns. Whining that this shouldn’t be politicized and then mentioning this psycho kid voted for Obama? I’ve read ramblings of madmen (like Rodger) that sound more coherent and sane than you. Way to go, nutjob.

    • NameNotGiven

      Actually non criminal homes with guns are safer than average homes.
      You mean criminal gun owning homes are more dangerous. But they are more dangerous with or without guns. Having a person with gang affiliation or criminal background and a gun in a home raises risks of death or injury for everyone by 20x. having no criminal background person and a gun actually makes you home safer than a unarmed home

    • Adam Wood

      “I’ve never seen anything this unbelievably narcissistic and grotesque.”

      I have. It happened on Saturday morning when Richard Martinez decided to take great delight in his son’s martyrdom on the altar of his political cause.

  • J. Mark Soveign

    Apart from the factual errors, irrelevant diversions and whiny calumnies, your analysis is spot on!

  • US Army (retired)

    “Gun control” is not about guns, it’s about control of
    people, law-abiding people…because criminals, by definition, ignore
    laws! So, before you or anyone else
    attempts to convince me that we somehow need new gun laws (or that new gun laws
    will actually “make us safer” by reducing gun “carnage”), you must first
    convince me that violent criminals and the mentally deranged will abide by your
    new gun laws any more than they abide by all of the restrictive gun laws on the
    books now.

    A gun, knife, bat, hammer are nothing more than tools. As a Roman once said; The sword is not a killer, it is the weapon in the killer’s hand.

    • tiredofdogma

      Clearly an enlisted man, diverted by the courts. A gun is a weapon, soldier — the other items are tools, as are you.

      • US Army (retired)

        Really? Is that ALL you got? Go home to mommy, drink another large glass of Kool-Aid (AKA Obama’s piss) with your meds and go back to mommies basement, it will be OK after you relax a little.

        • Ravi32

          tiredofdogma posts on washintontimes. He ahs claimed ot be former military yet thinks an AR-15 is an “automatic weapon,” that a 1911 is modern (it is 100 years old) and that a brigade is larger than a division. He is stolen honor fake vet.

      • NameNotGiven

        gusn prevent up to three million crimes per year.
        and if you think killing someone with a hammer or a knife means that hammer or knife is not a weapon you are the enlistee (or draftee)

  • WCWebb

    The 2nd amendment is very clear that the only people who have the right to bear arms are the members of a well-regulated militia-So Joe, exactly which National Guard unit are you in?

    • 365conservative

      Are you suggesting that when the Constitution was written the only people who owned guns were members of a militia?

      Or were they misinterpreting the document?

    • NameNotGiven

      no. it says a militia being necessary. Well regulated refers to civilians having guns or infantry regulars (ie not pitchforks and scythes) . IE when a militia is called up the citizens already own their firearms

  • JoshP

    Joe,

    You barely finished high school. Your marriage failed. You weren’t even able to get a license to be a plumber.You don’t represent America.You represent failure.

    • Ravi32

      sounds like most democrats!

  • forpeace

    Dr. Frank to forpeace • 22 minutes ago
    Read it again, cretin – it’s already answered in the narrative. What a moron. . .
    ————————————–
    Dear poster Dr. Frank,

    Are you Joe the FAKE plumber pretending to be a FAKE Doctor?

    So far you haven’t even posted one intelligent or informative comment on this article.

    All you have been doing is personally attacking every single poster, calling everyone nasty names, and being rude to almost everyone.

    Please go work on your lack of intelligence, manners, and social skills, you are just embarrassing yourself.

    • EnuffBull

      Paging Dr. Frank to the Right Wing Echo Chamber.
      Paging Dr. Frank.
      Dr. Frank.
      Echo Chamber.
      Echo Chamber.
      Apologist Echo Chamber, Dr. Frank!

    • Denni A

      looks like he/she can’t make up their mind if you’re a “luv” or “cretin”.
      sounds like we have ourselves a Dr Joekyll (Frank) and Mr. Hyde.

      • forpeace

        It seems the FAKE Dr. Frank is in need of real mental treatments.

        One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest version ll.

        • Denni A

          ha!!…Dr. Palin(Joe,Frank,Sarah) and Mr(s).Hyde

          • forpeace

            You are not only unintelligent and rude, you are also unable to read and comprehend.

            Please go back to school and start all over again, then come back with a copy of your GED test results before posting comments.

          • NameNotGiven

            keep the criminals in jail and US murder drops by 90%

          • forpeace

            Yes, that one!! LOL

          • forpeace

            Denni, by mistake I posted my reply to Fake Dr. Frank to your comment, my sincere apology, and I did fix that.

  • chynna

    What complete paranoid cowardly narcissistic moron and heartless brain dead Neanderthal you have evolved into.
    To even bring up your HOBBY into the issue around the horrific grief the parents of these victims are now suffering shows you complete lack of any humanity and your total inability to see anything but your own self centered and selfish interests in any part of your life. You are a cold hearted manipulative and repugnant piece of filth.
    You are one of the most insane and perverse and mentally incompetent individuals I have ever heard speak. All of you weapons should be confiscated and you should receive a life long ban from owning any at all. You have lost all ability to make any rational and logic discernment on social issues and you are completely are incapable of any intellectual thought.
    I would also feel it would be best for society in general if you were castrated so that you do not pass on any of your defective mental state to any offspring either. We do not need another one of you on this earth.

    • Ravi32

      the gun grabbers are the narcissists.
      Why don’t you follow your natural progression and tear up the entire bill of rights?
      Four times as many kids are killed by first amendment protected circumcision than by assault rifles each year.

  • Taco

    So I’m supposed to lose my natural right of self defense because we live in a society with nutjobs being allowed to roam the streets when they are known threats? An unknown threat, it is what it is…but when these things happen there is always someone saying… “Yea, he always was a bit…different” or something like that. Why do we let these nutters roam free? I didn’t do anything wrong…don’t take my rights…lock THEM up…they are the ones not playing with a full deck of cards…why should we have to “childproof” our society when these nutters have no place in it…lock them up if they are a potential threat. Their freedom doesn’t trump my rights.

  • Renee Goodwin

    Have you no shame, these people lost their children and you are whining about your unfounded fear of losing your guns

    • Ravi32

      yes like the ACLU whines every time sensible compromised are proposed on the fourth and fifth amendment when a person is killed.
      The fourth and fifth amendments kill four times as many people as the second, yet some extremists still want jury trials or “right to counsel” a first conviction!

  • Winky Cat

    “…..I speak now only to the families of the gunshot victims in Santa Barbara:

    Enter to win the Family Gun Package Giveaway!

    It’s a tragedy.”

    You actually set up the above “Open Letter” with “Enter to win the Family Gun Package Giveaway” blurb right in between the first two lines??? Have you ANY decency??? Obviously NOT!

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      i didnt catch that! that is really sick and twisted. 0_0

      • Winky Cat

        And here it is, 6 hours after my original post and 3 hours after your reply, and no one has thought to correct it yet.

        • Ravi32

          since gun owners prevent 500,00 to three million crimes per year how does that not make sense?

    • Ravi32

      You can bet the thee who were stabbed to death wish they had a gun. Guns prevent massive amounts of crime.
      it is sick of you to try and grab them when it could have prevented this rampage!

      • Winky Cat

        Yeah, sure, every person who is about to be stabbed, bulegenoned has a loaded gun dangling from their fingertips.

  • petesh

    What an awful way to politicize a tragedy.

  • Rob Erta

    In related video – yet another example of the type of violence that handguns can prevent: http://youtu.be/OzW3nv0xS18?t=12s

    • Ravi32

      Gun owners prevent 500,00 t three million crimes per year (CDC 2013)

  • Cheyenne

    Your mother should have thrown you out and kept the afterbirth.

    • Ravi32

      the afterbirth re the gun control freaks who want to disarm the law abiding.

  • Veteran

    I’m a Libertarian. But if I were Mr Martinez, I’d be looking for Joe.

    • Dr. Frank

      I’d like to see that play out – Mr. Martinez, who apparently abhors guns, violently confronting Joe, who has the ability to deliver a projectile at approximately 1200fps. I’m guessing even you can figure out how that might end . . .

      • EnuffBull

        Yes. Mr. Martinez would like to confront a person with verbal skills; Joe would just be a killer letting his gun do the talking. You are a coward for suggesting such an outcome, Dr. Hyperbole.

        • Dr. Frank

          And you’re an idiot for not extrapolating the probable outcomes . . .

          • EnuffBull

            What possible outcome? That Joe is a repressed maniac that would kill instead of have a conversation? No, I think I just laid it on the line, you hack.

          • Ravi32

            you were owned

  • Andrew Rogerson

    There’s a special place in hell, for people like you.

    • Dr. Frank

      Really?! That’s all you’ve got!? I was hoping for more from you Alinsky fans . . . (sigh)

      • Andrew Rogerson

        I do tend to find arguing with people who think having the right to own a gun, doesn’t effect the homicide rate of a country, pretty fruitless. People like the ones commenting here, are the exact reason why Americans are mocked around the world.

      • Andrew Rogerson

        I usually find arguing with people who, don’t realise there’s a direct correlation between ease of gun ownership, to amount of gun deaths, a pretty fruitless task.

      • Andrew Rogerson

        Seems my reply to you has been removed twice. Censorship rules!!!

  • forpeace

    I have a valid question to ask you, Samuel.

    I know you have a child (son), how would you feel if God Forbid you lose your child in a gun violence and some paranoid opportunist such as YOURSELF claims he is the real victim not your child?

    I want you to Man Up and answer my valid question, Joe!

    I’m waiting.

    • eyelashviper

      Manning Up is beyond his capabilities…

    • Dr. Frank

      Read it again, cretin – it’s already answered in the narrative. What a moron. . .

      • forpeace

        Are you Joe the FAKE plumber pretending to be a FAKE Doctor?

        So far you haven’t even posted one intelligent or informative comment on this article.

        All you have been doing is personally attacking every single poster, calling everyone nasty names, and being rude to almost everyone.

        Please go work on your lack of intelligence, manners, and social skills, you are just embarrassing yourself.

        • Ravi32

          Can you read? gun owns prevent up to three million crimes.

          This whole thing would never have happened if own of the stabbed men had had a gun

    • Ravi32

      Can you read? gun owns prevent up to three million crimes.
      This whole thing would never have happened if own of the stabbed men had had a gun

  • melixochitl

    those 15 minutes of fame in 2008 called. They’d like you to stay there.

    • Dr. Frank

      Oh, SNAP! I wish I had thought of such a witty one-liner! Perhaps you should consider show biz?

      • Melissa Rubio

        Your sarcasm font seems to be broken.

        • forpeace

          What is broken and missing are his grey cells.

  • forpeace

    Dear Samuel J. Wurzelbacher aka Joe the Fake Plumber,

    Please allow me to start by saying shame on NRA, and shame on you for claiming you are the real victim of Santa Barbara shootings even after 7 people were killed.

    Didn’t you also claim you were a real plumber right before we found out you did NOT even have a license?

    I always enjoy reading your phony profile!
    – Occupation: Commentator/correspondent!! lol
    – Former plumber’s assistant!! lol WTH is former plumber assistant?

    Only in this country a real loser, tax cheater, and a pathological liar can be a conservative activist, commentator, author and motivational speaker!!
    People are being killed in this country due to gun violence, and you are worried about losing your guns which no one is taking it away from you?

    P.S.: Recently you’ve gotten yourself a union job with Chrysler Group LLC. after talking non-stop nonsense to express your hatred for bailout of the auto industry and UNIONS. You mentioned you were required to join the United Auto Workers, now that you work for a union shop, you also claimed you have been called a “Tea Bagger” by at least one pro-union co-worker.

    Kudos to all UNIONS, and well deserved title for you, LIAR.

    • eyelashviper

      Excellent comments, you nailed him for what he is, a Liar, a craven opportunist, and a complete loser.

      • forpeace

        Thank you, plus everything in my comment is 100% true.

        • Dr. Frank

          Right, just because you say it, it’s 100% true. I’m interested in knowing how you reconcile your moniker “forpeace” while spewing all that invective, luv. One would think that someone who hides behind “forpeace” would be, oh, I don’t know, patient and loving, kind and considerate (you know, like Ghandi, Mother Theresa)?

          Maybe you meant “furpiece” . . .

          • Denni A

            oh, and one would think someone hiding behind a moniker with “Dr.” would display some semblance of intelligence, logic, rational-thinking, common sense with common sensibilities all of which none of the above are present in your feeble attempts at commenting here…luv…(wink, wink).

    • EnuffBull

      “Former plumber’s assistant” = Plunger. Snake. Draino. All more reliable to get the sh#t out, instead of spewing it like Professor Joe.

  • http://welcomebacktopottersville.blogspot.com jurassicpork

    Sam, please turn yourself into a rotting corpse. Seriously. Just… die and go away. I don’t know why or how you keep winding up in the public eye like a sharp stick since your 15 minutes was up six years ago. But you’re like Mr. Clean’s brain-damaged twin brother that ought to be kept in an attic and fed a bucket of fish heads every day. And you just keep escaping and embarrassing the nation.

    If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that the right of those six innocent young adults to live is trumped by your right to bear arms to protect a family that no one is threatening? Are you libertarian douchebags really that sociopathic? That’s a purely academic question, of course. We already know the answer.

    But seriously, Sammy, please put yourself, and those of us in the reality-based community, out of our misery and just do the right thing for once in your shiftless, worthless, failure-riddled life.

    • Dr. Frank

      Ah, a GOOD Alinsky-ite shows his true colors! If you can’t refute the message, attack the messenger!

      Well-learned! Well-played! It added such insight to the discussion! (NOT)

  • TimJ

    If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. It isn’t Mr. Plumber’s (or anyone else’s) job to “respond” to a grieving parent. Even the NRA has had the good sense to stay quiet.

    • Dr. Frank

      Well, as a blogger, it IS Joe’s job to comment. You don’t have to read it . . .

  • yeahok

    Yeah, Mr. Martinez! Don’t let that durned main stream media use your tragedy to push their political agenda! That’s my (only) job!

    • Dr. Frank

      You missed the point entirely, my friend – if the libs can politicize this, why can’t the cons?

  • EnuffBull

    My 1st amendment right is to call Joe a c#nt for this partisan-garbage editorial.

    • Dr. Frank

      Yes, it is, if that’s all you’ve got – it’s just so sad that all you liberal hate-mongers who posted here are devoid the skill of polite discourse about subjects where posters disagree with your view.

  • marylou

    Whose fault is it….It is the shooters fault….not his gun….not his knife.
    He was brought up as a self indulgent…me first…I am entitled individual… whose parents did nothing to correct!!

    If you want to blame anyone….Blame his parents…they shielded his abhorrent behavior and lifestyle
    and now they want to blame guns and knives. That’s a cop out!

    Puhleeze….look to yourselves/blame yourselves….you raised a monster..and hid his behavior rather than getting help….because your ego refused to allow you to admit your offspring was …a broken individual in need of mental help!
    I call it…not my kid syndrome…he’s a good boy….he stole, was a gang member,
    hurt people etc etc..but he was a good boy and he shouldn’t be dead! Really???

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      the parents tried to get help for their son, it was the kids that failed to see what was wrong. his own parents turned him into the police a few weeks before and they assured them he was fine. plus, it wasnt the parents that blamed guns, it was one of the victims parents that blamed guns…

  • Twiddle

    Well. Congratulations, Joe, that title of “biggest douche in the country” seems to be all yours. Enjoy.

    • Dr. Frank

      And you would be the one to bestow it on him, right . . .? Thanks for sharing, um, nothing!

  • Grayson Blackshear Galloway

    This is tasteless and frankly, doesn’t advance the interests of Americans who support the Second Amendment. The average reader will look at this open letter and think that Joe is exploiting a tragedy in many of the same ways that “libs” do to champion his case for 2A rights

    • Dr. Frank

      Lots of people here don’t agree with your take on this, Grayson – you might want to give it a second look . . .

      • Grayson Blackshear Galloway

        I understand that my view on it probably won’t be popular. This is a very conservative website with strong support for the Constitution, which I agree with. My point was that, based on the content of the article, this is essentially exploiting a tragedy to advance a political cause (the preservation of gun rights in America) with conservative window dressing.

        The fact of the matter is that this killing spree really had nothing to do with gun laws in the first place. All of his firearms were bought legally and legally owned/registered in a state that has strict(er) gun control than most states. It’s a shame guns are being brought into the conversation because this wasn’t a failure of law. We as Americans tend to look at our laws and expect them to work all of the time when in reality, this was just an example of a whacko going off and shooting/stabbing/running over people. As morbid as it sounds, in a country of 350+ million people there will likely be a few of these incidents a year and it has nothing to do with levels of gun control.

        My point, in conclusion, is that Joe put out a pretty cold-blooded article that will probably hurt the 2A movement by playing to the caricature of conservative gun nuts clutching their AR-15′s (regardless of whether or not that is true)

        • Dr. Frank

          The premise for Joe’s article was stated at the first – it was a response to the father of one of the victims whose comments already politicized the issue.

          • Grayson Blackshear Galloway

            You’re absolutely correct Dr Frank. But Joe also has a track record of staying above politicized simpering — I’m simply trying to say “your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights” is probably not the best press for the 2A movement.

            We can agree to disagree

          • Dr. Frank

            Indeed – it could have been watered down, but then again, that’s the problem with the discourse on guns. The retches that seek to deprive us of gun rights are absolutely shameless and rabid in their characterizations of gun owners, and are the first to politicize incidents like this to mobilize their base. Seems we could use a little fire in the belly on the issue, and I don’t think Joe was far off mark.

            Appreciate your comments.

  • Art__VanDalay

    Hey (not)Joe the (not) Plumber!!! FFFFFFFUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK YOU, you paranoid, insensitve loser.

    • Dr. Frank

      Nice, Art! Which page of the Alinsky book was that copied from . . .? I can’t seem to find it in my copy. Oh, the votes are in and it’s official – everyone else who posted here believes that YOU are the loser! Congrats!!

      • Arcturus

        Just to make you wrong even further: I am posting here and I don’t think Art is a loser. To me it is obvious you are the champion knuckle dragger.

        • Dr. Frank

          Arcuturs, thanks for playing, but no. Your posting your opinion makes no one “wrong”. If you have something meaningful and insightful to add to the discourse, say on. But I suspect not, as you were unable to put together three informative sentences the first time.

          • Arcturus

            You stated “everyone else who posted here believes” – as if that would carry some weight on its own. A cursory glance at these comments proves you wrong, as that is not true. And then you refute yourself in your childish response to me – stating that my opinion makes no one “wrong” – when that is precisely the assertion you were making in your first reply to Art V! As is usual, logic and dialectic reasoning are difficult for most people with the simple and uninformed views you have. Playground comebacks – now that is something you seem familiar with.

          • Dr. Frank

            At the time of my posting, genius, the propensity of replies were in support of Joe’s editorial. Or perhaps you forgot to expand the replies at the bottom of the page and read ALL of them, cherry-picking instead to make your point, as your kind do so frequently. It would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic that you accuse me of “playground comebacks” when that is the crux and substance of YOUR initial posting. Familiar with them? Absolutely – people like you seem incapable of finding anything but “playground comebacks” to post, so don’t lecture me on logic and dialectics, buffoon (and I mean that in the kindest way. . .).

  • csalafia

    Congrats on submitting your entry into the “Insensitive Dick of the Year” contest. The competition is tough, but you’re definitely in the top 5.

    • Dr. Frank

      And you, my friend, must top the list. If you’re going to post, make it something salient, meaningful, and thought-provoking. You were only able to do the very last – provoke. Idiot . . .

      • csalafia

        How’s about this for salient and meaningful..

        …if one’s default position after a tragedy like this is “nobody better take mah gunz!”, then that person is a poor excuse for a human being.

        • Dr. Frank

          If the second attempt was a shot at improving over the first – EPIC FAIL. A “poor excuse for a human being” is someone who cannot articulate a sound, fact-supported argument and instead stoops to name-calling or character assassination. (Yes, that would be you.)

      • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

        from what i see you are insulting everyone and then saying others should only provide comments that help the discussion. when you are the one attacking everyone…

    • Arcturus

      Hey, try to type something insightful like “Dr. Frank.” Oh that is too funny.

  • Madley

    Loser!!! You want to carry guns, join the military. That’s what the second amendment was always about, militias! The founders were against a standing army for fear of Tyranny by the military.

    • Dr. Frank

      What annals of history did you unearth that none of the rest of us have been able to read yet? Such inspiring wisdom – NOT! Ah, Madley – your ignorance is showing, my son. The tyranny feared by the framers of the Constitution was that of our own government’s over-reach (which is happening now, if you’d care to put down the doobie and pay attention). And, militias are made up of private citizens who own guns – I know that’s a revelation for you, but such is their nature. Without guns, no militias – without militias, no ability to resist an oppressive government – just what your pal Barry wants, and apparently you do, too. Loser.

  • John1943

    With all these shooters, I’d like to know what meds they were prescribed in school. A lot of kids I know about that have had problems have spent years being medicated for attention disorder or some other supposed ailment that did not exist when I was a kid.

    • cris

      They are usually prescribed this mind-altering poison because doctors do not wanna do their job and parents don’t wanna do their’s….

  • GomeznSA

    Joe, I concur with your sentiments overall, especially the parts about praying for the families and particularly those who survived the attack, be they the ones who were shot or Hit By The Car. name deleted committed multiple assaults with his car, haven’t heard word one about banning ‘assault autos’ or ‘assault knives’ either for that matter.
    I will ‘correct’ you on one point though. There is NO such thing as “gun violence” – guns are inanimate objects and thus cannot commit violence. Yes, it is a commonly used phrase but that only plays into the hoplophobes and anti-rights activists. We need to call it what it really is: Human Violence, the person is what commits the violence – in this case with a knife, a car and with guns. He did it, not the objects he used.

  • icemancold

    According to news report this KILLER suffered extreme mental illness and was seeing numerous Therapists. If this is true why was this KILLER allowed to be in public with out some one with him to prevent this type of thing from happening?. NOW BLAME THE KILLER,BLAME THE THERAPISTS,BLAME THE PARENTS THESE ARE THE ONES WHO FAILED IN THEIR JOB TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT.!! DO NOT BLAME THE TOOLS USED THE KNIFE AND THE GUNS THESE WERE ONLY TOOLS TO REACH AN END.GUNS AND KNIVES ALONE DO NOT KILL THEY MUST BE IN THE HANDS OF A MENTALLY DEFICIENT PERSON TO KILL.

    • Leota2

      Actually the parents and the therapists warned the police. The police never entered his apartment or looked up whether he had purchased weapons–which he lied to them about.
      Knives have other uses by the way—guns are do not. And as you say–mentally ill people like Rodgers should not have access to weapons, that is what background checks are for.

      • Denni A

        a knife would not have slashed through 26 children in a classroom in less than 10 seconds. there is absolutely no equivalency between a semi-auto weapon with 100 round magazine and a knife.

        • Dr. Frank

          And there would have been no semi-auto weapon in the classroom if existing law had been enforced, or (here’s a radical idea) the potential shooter knew that several unknown teachers/administrators/staff were armed inside the school and would stop him before he got started. C’mon, Denni – get a clue . . .

  • William Fejka

    I am a father of two sons. In 2002 my youngest son Aaron committed suicide with a firearm that I had given him. I cannot begin to relate the extreme sense of loss my wife and I experienced. As a Marine combat veteran I had seen death before and it is not pretty but to see your son’s dead body is completely different. But I degress. My point is that I was a collector/shooter and I am today. I did not blame that firearm. I did not place blame on any firearm whether I owned them or not. The firearm played no role in his death other than being a means to an end. If a firearm was not available , he would have chosen another method to carry out his wish of prematurely ending his life. While I am saddened by any young person’s death I think that the father should get a grip and come to terms with the fact that while a firearm was used , were it not available , some other method of killing would have been employed.
    Just my two cents worth!
    Semper Fi (USMC 68-71), Molon Labe & Parabellum

    • Denni A

      so please tell us what other ‘method’ would have been used to massacre 26 children in a classroom. using your logic I guess we should allow nuclear bombs to be sold to the general public and JUST HOPE some nutcase doesn’t get a hold of one…you’re comparing apples to oranges.

  • edro3111

    Excellent Joe!

  • cornbread01

    THANK YOU, JOE!!! And what you say is a large preponderance of what is sadly missing in America under liberal/progressive/communist assault upon our traditional America & what actually made us the singular greatest nation upon earth. And that is this right here: There is some things GREATER than any one of us, or ALL of us. #1- Almighty /god, our Creator ( very top of list) #2 Our Country / our natural inalienable rights, without which America would not exist. #3- Family, as in our honored family structure , which has been under assault for many years. The family, the Patriotic, structured disciplined family unit is the basic building block for a strong , productive, secure nation. Without God & our Constitutional, conservative values at the top, all of this will fail to the destruction of all, even the liberals & their idea of some sort of collectivist nirvana.

    • Denni A

      oh please, what a bunch of paranoid malarkey, stuff another cornbread in your mouth and calm down.

      • Dr. Frank

        Nicely put, Dummi – er, Denni – but which EXACTLY is the paranoid malarkey and by what standard do you judge it so? If you’ve got no facts, keep your trap shut and your ideas suppressed – we don’t need to hear/read YOUR malarkey.

        • Denni A

          “Nicely put”….
          yeah I thought so too, get cornbread to bake you a loaf and you can both get stuffed together. two “half-baked” paranoid minds stuffed with corn-mush.

      • cornbread01

        Here’s some more cornbread for you, that you seem to have missed out on somewhere along the way. It’s called history & those who deny it will repeat it: “This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!”
        Adolf Hitler 1935

        *“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”
        Adolf Hitler, May Day, 1927

  • Jay Star

    The first thing out of the investigators mouths on TV was semi auto handgun and we are looking for other weapons! I thought to myself, enter the gun control nuts! Not a word about the innocent victims and their families! Yep, that nasty gun made this poor deluded person go and kill those people and what can we say about that vicious knife!

  • elmcqueen3

    During the 1960′s the Democrat Party was hijacked and taken hostage by all the radical elements of our society…i.e…The left wing extremists…Today these radicals are now our elected politicians and representatives…The original Democrats such as my parents believed in the philosophy that the Democrat Party was the party for and of the working man and woman…This ideology has since come to an aburpt end…These extremists have even risen to become the “community organizers” of the day…Amongst other thoughts of radicalism…These liberal and progressive groups have hailed “Political Correctness” as their trademark and as their further rallying cry…While proclaiming “common sense” to all questionable issue as their arguing point…All this left wing “nonsense” has turned this country upside down…What is even more alarming is that every shooter of notoriety since John Wilkes Booth has been a Democrat or an offspring of a Democrat…Which leads one to the conclusion that mentally disturbed individuals who use guns to vent their frustrations or anger by killing innocent victims tend to be from the liberal left…i.e…Democrats…Not one shooter of notoriety during the last 150 years was found to be a registered Republican…Nor an NRA member…Nor a Conservative…Nor an Independent…Nor a Tea Party folk…Nor a Veteran…Nor an Eagle Scout…And definately not a responsible Gun Owner…All shooter of notoriety were and are Democrats…Consensus: Democrats should not be allowed to own a firearm…Nor a sword or a machete…Nor a knife or a box cutter…Nor a baseball bat or a golf club…Nor a chain, a tire iron, a hammer, a screw driver, a wooden 2×4, a club or a big stick…These items are constantly being used to kill people by mentally deranged lunatics who proudly enjoy calling themselves “Democrats!”!…”When will They ever Learn?”…Peter, Paul and Mary.

    • cris

      Demoncrats

  • EriktheRed
  • tulet

    Very well penned letter. The only blame is on the sick individual and his upbringing.

  • cleanwater2

    To all fathers and mothers, sisters and
    brothers of people lost by the actions of less than rational
    individuals and groups of people that want to kill others that they
    don’t agree with. You have my deepest sympathies. There are millions
    of others in the same position as you and yours. The reason I say
    this is that there were and are every person and relatives lost
    getting and protecting our Constitution. A partial summary is 1.3
    million soldiers this does not include civilian killed directly or
    indirectly with this total, the estimate could be in excess of 50
    million.

    If as a results of the tyrant in power
    now in our government resulted in a civil war with his calling on
    Russia and China to help him enforce martial law can you imagine the
    total number of deaths. I cannot imagine.

    We need the Second Amendment. The
    number of Americans with guns both men and women, husband , mothers ,
    daughters and sons are what have prevented Obama from declaring
    “martial law” already.

    There are about 200 million guns owned
    in the US and the number is growing. This number is greater than the
    total number in the military and all government agencies which Obama
    is trying to arm. Obama knows that he can not depend on these
    employes, therefore he will get the Mexicans, the drug cartels , the
    Russians and the Chines to invade the United States. Obama is a
    traitor.

    Everyone that is supporting the
    disarming of Americans (destroying the Second Amendment) are causing
    the total destruction of this Country

  • PT

    Well written Joe. It is plain that you see this tragedy for what it is, not what a specific party, liberals, can gain from it. Elliot was a very sad and sick individual definitely needing mental health care. Why the family and therapists failed in seeking a private party petition is a good question. Apparently they didn’t care enough, and figured it was somebody else’s problem. Mr Martinez is definitely grief stricken, but he sure is ready to blame others, than those responsible. California has the top rating of all states when it comes to anti-gun laws by the Brady crowd. We see how well those laws failed, again. Obviously what he is ranting on is very false. Hopefully when he calms down and looks at what happened, he will realize the blame lands squarely on democrats shoulders. The one clear thread that unites all the mass murders currently being exploited by the Democrats is that they were committed by visibly crazy people who were not institutionalized. Time to start committing these individuals before any further problems.

  • Farbar

    Joe was being honest and very kind in this letter. He cares far more for these unfortunate families than the anti-2A folks ever will. They will use those families for as long as they need to and then toss them aside.

    • Leota2

      How was he kind—by responding to a grieving father who did not ask his idiotic opinion?

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      As harsh as this sounds – your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights.
      —-
      yeah very kind and compassionate…

  • RH6194

    I personally find this “open letter” to be in poor taste. I don’t believe that the Rodger family deserves this kind of insensitive attack…particularly at a moment like this.

    This is an unfortunate and tragic incident that has occurred. By all accounts, Mr. Rodger’s parents were very concerned about him, had him receiving mental health treatment (for many years) and had alerted his counselor when they became more concerned about his recent online postings.

    The counselor referred the matter to police who interviewed Mr. Rodger and released him saying that he appeared to be very courteous and polite. If this tragic incident could have been prevented, it was at this critical interview…but apparently Rodger was calm enough to convince police that he was fine and no further treatment or detainment was necessary.

    Before I go any further, let me say this and be very clear….

    I ALSO am a conservative, pro-Constitution, civil rights advocate! I have NEVER voted for Obama…and I vehemently disagree with nearly every policy his administration proposes.

    However, with that said, I will say that I don’t care how someone votes, what socioeconomic class they are in, how educated they may be, what race they are or any other of a myriad of categories we try to classify each other into. NO ONE deserves to have to suffer the pain of losing a child…and that includes Mr. and Mrs. Rodger at this time!

    I’ve read all sorts of nonsense about how their son was such a spoiled, rich kid who was indulged but never loved…and this is the result. To all who are posting this crap, HOW DO YOU KNOW??? Okay, he was driving a BMW during the attack, but beyond that this is all speculation. Most of us never heard of Elliot Rodger before Friday evening. Now suddenly, thousands of people are experts on his family life.

    As soon as his parents received his email at 9:17pm, they raced across town towards the UCSB campus hoping to catch Elliot before it was too late. Sadly, before the could catch him, the 9:30pm shooting began and they heard the horrible news on their car radio…knowing it was Elliot before ANY of us did.

    Their hearts are broken…just as are the hearts of every other family member and loved one who lost someone in this senseless tragedy.

    Instead of playing partisan politics and being the kind of insensitive jerk the left portrays conservatives as, how about showing some compassion to all of the families who are deeply grieved today!

    When and if the liberal agenda tries to politicize this event again, there will be time then to fight this as we always do…with the politicians and lobbyists – NOT the families and our fellow neighbors!!!

    I understand the concerns of the author of this letter, however he is wanting to react before anything has taken place yet. Let’s slow down and keep our priorities in order. Priority number 1 is to be a compassionate human being!

    • PT

      RH6194, I appreciate what you are saying, and truly wish we could have the cooling off period you suggest. Yet I would be far more upset as a family member that the left has started spreading lies and politicizing this tragedy. Emotional pain is very expected, and for a long time to come. The “New York Daily” wasted no time playing with this tragedy.

      The “America in Denial” campaign downplays the gruesomeness of the stabbings that took three lives in Santa Barbara before Rodger used a gun to murder three others (and tried to use his car to kill four others).

      The first installment of the series, by Mike Pupica, already lays the groundwork for looking past the three stabbing deaths and focusing solely on the three shooting deaths. As Pupica demonstrates, those seeking to push gun control often add the gunman’s death in with the number of “innocent people” who were shot and killed; he lists the number of people killed with a gun as four instead of three.

      Pupica bemoans, at length, a so-called lack of gun control while ignoring the fact that California has some of the strictest gun control laws of any state in the country.

      “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

      • RH6194

        PT, I agree completely with what you are saying! I have NO DOUBTS the left will politicize this tragedy – and it is no surprise that they will ignore both those who were killed or attacked with anything other than a gun!

        I don’t disagree with the main points that the author of the open letter is making. I DO understand his concern about the left using this to try to pass anti-gun legislation. This is also one of my concerns…and it is NO SURPRISE that the left will go immediately to their “playbook”!

        I don’t mind having a discussion regarding the issue of the types of mass attacks being politicized to usurp our 2nd Amendment rights as American citizens. However I don’t want to be so involved in the bitterness of that argument that I allow the left to rob me of my humanity and concern for another human being.

        I hope their will be others who will feel as I do as well. I fear that the reason our nation is so bitterly divided today is that we are allowing ourselves to bitterly “dig our heels in” – regardless of what side of the issue we are on. Instead of seeing ourselves as “One nation, under God”…we have allowed ourselves to become bitterly embedded enemies…liberals and conservatives! That is at least as big a loss for our nation as the 2nd Amendment we are fighting to defend. Personally, I want to protect ALL of our American way of life…not just selected parts of it!

        • PT

          Sadly you only have those rights you are willing to fight for. A very apropos statement today. I fail to see how debunking the lies of the left is allowing the debate to lowering itself. I understand what you wish for, but once the lies start, and they already have, you can not stand by. I feel educating people and exposing the myths and lies as crucial. Granted, often they spiral downward, resulting in the left calling names, insults and threats. I feel when the left pulls their stunts while losing, the point has been made twice. Your comments, while valid, might be better off posted on moveon, huffington or even the LA Times where it will reach far more of the problem.

          • RH6194

            PT, I think there is still some misunderstanding in what I am sabying and how it is being interpreted. The search for the TRUTH (and sharing that truth with others) is among our most noble pursuits in this life! In NO WAY should you interpret what I am saying as ignoring the truth, putting the truth on “hold”, candy coating the truth or anything of the kind!

            I AM saying that we need to pursue and defend ourselves and fight for the truth against our REAL enemies. It is the liberal elite, the left wing media groups, and unions (particularly TEACHERS unions) that are attacking our moral fabric, rewriting our history, brainwashing our children, dumbing down our society and slowly transforming us into a socialist welfare nation! THEY are the enemies! THEY are the ones who are spreading the lies, deceit, and corruption throughout our nation. THEY are the ones who we must focus our energy against.

            Focusing on hurling insults at the Rodger family just makes us look like the insensitive, intolerant jerks that the left wants to paint us as! DON’T play their game! Keep focus on the REAL war at hand!

            (BTW, the UC system is FULL of professors shoving this liberal nonsense down our kids throats…even right there on the campus where this heinous attack took place).

  • ppanthers

    Thank Obama for turning more loonies and criminals loose on American streets by releasing all those illegals that were convicted of crimes! They want the freebies from America, as if they had some right to them, but they don’t want to be law abiding in any sense, even to get into this country and therefore don’t respect anything about us. They think they are also ‘entitled’ and will stop at nothing to take whatever it is they want, following BHO’s example! So thank your tyrannical leader, America, while you sit there and watch it happen and DO NOTHING!

    • Leota2

      You are kind of clueless about what is truly going on in this country–huh? Your monologue has nothing to do with a kid who was mentally ill getting his hands on guns and killing other American kids. And by the way–more people have been deported during the Obama administration than any other. Of course you are conservative and probably don’t do FACTS.

  • Monk

    Oorah Mr. Sam W. Therein lies the truth and reality. Stay strong and persevere.
    Semper FI

  • Janine Largent

    Apparently Mr. Martinez forgot about the first three victims who where STABBED to death. Are we going to outlaw knives too? I was appalled listening to a parent who had just lost their child politicize their grief. I suspect the murderer was probably the product of a liberal family upbringing. They are usually the soulless, hopeless, Godless ones usually on some anti depressant medication that commit these horrible acts. Someone ought to profile these rampaging mass murderers. They are usually young, white, males from an upper middle class two professional parent household. Whose parents treated them like their personal project, but never really spent any time with them. When the kid shows signs of depression they get him the best shrink money can buy and put him on an anti depressant, then they send him back to the upscale school to carry on. I din’t need parenting tips from these types and I sure don’t respect their opinion on the second ammendment. Guns didn’t kill these kids. Your soulless Frankenstein dud.

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      Your soulless Frankenstein did.
      —-
      sure, just attacks parents who lose their son. elliot may have committed an unforgiveable crime, but his parents didnt. there is no need to attack them. they did their best to stop their child, it was the police that failed.

      • Janine Largent

        The “your”was euphemistic. I am sorry for each individual family, but to ignore the obvious profile of these soulless perpetrators is an insult to every family whose own child was a victim of these individuals and will only perpetuate the problem. Guns have been in society for hundreds of years. The phenomena of depressed, young, affluent, white sociopaths is quite new and deserves investigation.

  • surfish

    Joe, the ignorant, heartless tool…

  • Unanymouse

    To quote Jack Nicholson as ‘The Joker’ in the movie Batman: “This town (Nation) needs …an enema!”

  • HappyG

    There is little doubt that the gun grabbers will try to capitalize on these victims…it’s what they do…This nut was intent on causing death…and he utilized several different methods to do so…maybe if someone had been armed they could have stopped him in the early stages…A fact that no gun grabber would ever even consider.

  • ArtBrecher

    I don’t know anything about this murderer but if I were to guess I’d say that for one thing he’s probably been on a cocktail of different psychotropic medications for as long as he’s been alive. He has more then likely always been given everything he’s demanded and has spent as little time as possible in the company of his parents, being handed off to a variety of caregivers, pre-school, after school and etc so that his parents were free to continue their lives unencumbered by having to care for their child. I would also guess that he’s never been able to maintain a normal relationship with a female and in fact most of his high school associates would label him as “creepy”. He probably thought women were for his amusement, to entertain and satisfy his desires without any thought of actually developing a relationship. His parents surely knew something was amiss with this boy; why they didn’t do anything will probably never be explained.

    • RH6194

      Your right, your don’t know about this particular individual. Perhaps you should save your generalizations for a book. Or better yet, why don’t you try to get a job as a “profiler”? In the meantime, your gross insensitivity to the family of this individual that is struggling to deal with their loss and the profound sense of sorrow for the atrocities committed by their son is certainly unbecoming to you as a member of the human race. Why don’t you give them a break from your EXPERT OPINION?

      • PT

        RH6194, I’m curious as to how long you wish to allow for grieving? Mr. Martinez has wasted no time feeding lies and false information on this tragedy. I wish these victims family would grieve, but leave the politics out of it. How long do you feel the lies, stories, false blame, playing politics etc etc, shoud be allowed before truth is spoken? Just asking.

        • RH6194

          PT, I don’t know if there is an “appropriate amount of time” we need to allow. I think rather than it being a matter of time, it is more a matter of our method in discussing the truth. I don’t think it is beneficial to the conversation for us to hurl attacks at Mr. Rodger’s family. Even if the family has made terrible parenting mistakes in the past, pointing a harsh finger at them now is not going to serve any purpose. I feel certain that regardless of whatever other shortcomings they may have had, I don’t believe his family in any way wanted their son’s legacy to be this horrible tragedy.

          I would rather see the discussion surrounding the issues of protecting our rights, better methods of early detection for potentially homicidal or suicidal tendencies, legislation that allows law enforcement more latitude in placing a potentially dangerous mentally ill patient on a psych hold, allowing this type of concern by an individual’s mental health provider to allow for probable cause to search the patient’s personal property (phone, computer, etc), and so on.

          I know there are a lot of privacy concerns that surround these questions, but these are the issues of our day that we need to confront to help deter these attacks in the future. Limiting any particular type of weapon will only insure that the would be future attacker will use a different type of weapon.

          We need a better way to detect these types of attacks before they occur. Afterwards, it’s easy to point our fingers at families, guns, or whatever. Real change will not be realized until we find a way to prevent these attacks before they take place.

          Everyone needs to be involved – parents, friends, schools, law enforcement, therapists, clergy….and any others who are in a position of possibly having information which may help us ALL prevent these senseless tragedies!

          I agree with you completely that Mr. Martinez is making all sorts of inaccurate statements right now. I don’t know what his politics are, but at the moment, I can allow him to grieve the loss of his son as he feels he needs to. I am more upset by the media who are simply using Mr. Martinez as a pawn in their game. They are the real culprits who are behind sensationalizing this story and giving Mr. Martinez the spotlight to vent his anger and grief.

          We need to keep our eyes open to who the REAL enemies are and how they are manipulating our society. If my daughter had been one of the young women that were killed, I may be making similar statements….even though I know that isn’t what I truly believe if the emotion were removed from the situation.

          It’s not too early to engage the opposition on the political issues and challenges they pose, however the Rodger family is NOT the opposition we are facing!

      • ArtBrecher

        I never claimed to have an “expert” opinion. I do, however, have an opinion which I am expressing for others to read on this forum. I don’t have any particular animus for the family of the murderer; again, I’m just expressing my opinion. If reading opinions on subjects that are newsworthy upsets you perhaps you shouldn’t read any. Why not just stay in your basement and play video games??

        • RH6194

          Two problems here Art…I don’t have a basement and I HATE video games! However in all seriousness, it is not the content of what you said that bothers me! I think most all of us would agree that the character portrayal that you have laid out is accurate in the overwhelming majority of these cases. In fact, I agree that there is probably far more fact than error in your assessment of this situation.

          The point I am trying to make to everyone who is so quick to rush to judgement and indict this family with very little actual evidence is that I think we need to be sensitive and tactful in how we characterize this family. They are grieving the loss of their son just as is Mr. Martinez and the parents and loved ones of every other victim in this tragedy.

          In addition to the pain of grieving their loss, they now have to also deal with knowing that their son’s legacy will forever be that of a psychotic murderer who took the lives of six other innocent human beings. The pain and sorrow that kind of guilt and shame brings on a family is unimaginable.

          All I am suggesting is that we make an attempt to be sensitive to the loss suffered by EVERY family of those lost in this senseless tragedy. I have no doubt that the Rodger’s were far from the perfect parents. I’m sure they made a lot of mistakes in raising Elliot. However don’t think for a second that they aren’t reliving every decision and choice they ever made in raising him and asking themselves “what if only?” they had done something differently.

          If you can’t find it in your heart to be compassionate toward his family, then at least try omitting characterizations of them from your posts unless their are credible facts to support your comments.

          I’m not suggesting you are not entitled to express your opinion…I’m only hopeful that you will do so with the same level of sensitivity that you hope others would extend toward you if you were in their situation!

    • Jkhjhkjjh Jkhjhkjjh

      they did try to do something. the kid has a therapist for years, and when the mom saw the youtube videos, she immediately called the police on her own son, in fear that he would do something. but the police chose not to search the kids room, missing out on seeing the guns, and papers where he wrote his plans. they told the parents that the kid was polite and seemed normal. the parents tried to stop this from happening….

  • junkmailbin

    correct and to the point.

  • http://blaze.com/ mathchopper

    Can we assume his family were ED lib O’bummer voters?

    • RH6194

      How is your comment even remotely relevant???

      • http://blaze.com/ mathchopper

        Based on the facts of history which, of course, libs reject since it would disprove their agenda.

        • RH6194

          I understand the liberal “anti-American” socialist view garbage all too well. And I agree the the Obama administration has done everything in their power to undermine our American way of life. However at a moment like this, I don’t think who someone voted for should be the first thing that comes to mind.

          Being part of the Hollywood crowd, there’s a good chance the father is liberal and did vote for Obama, but does that mean he should have to suffer the horrors of seeing his son commit this horrible act before killing himself? I contend that no American deserves that…regardless of who they vote for at the ballot box. YES, votes do have consequences. But we need to reach out and try to educate people before they vote…not point a wagging finger at them after something like this happens and say “I told you so!”

          I agree with your sentiment, but take issue with your means of expressing it.

          • http://blaze.com/ mathchopper

            You’re probably right in again (like others) catching me in my attempt to save words. As you probably suspect I “meant”… the way the son was “raised”, it is most likely that the parents were lib Democraps.

  • SofiesVoice

    Thank you, Joe, for your thoughtful article. As cold as it may seem to some people, it has to be expressed. Perhaps the parents should have spent more quality time with their son and purchased him a VW….extravagant expensive material things are not a good substitute for the closeness and love and approval children yearn for. And, all those violent movies and games should be outlawed…..they are desensitizing people, especially kids who are so vulnerable to all that garbage. Guns don’t kill…..the person holding the gun is completely responsible…..the 2nd amendment does not kill…..people do. The guy was under therapy and the parents were aware of his pronouncements…..so those parties should be responsible to report their kids who may pose a danger to themselves or others. They are directly involved in the problem. Banning guns is not going to solve that problem.

  • shrgngatlas

    I’m sorry that Richard Martinez lost his child. He has a right to be grief stricken. He also has the right to be an idiot which is what he did with his statements. The shooter is the only person responsible for his son’s death. No other entity on earth, especially any inanimate objects, have any responsibility whatsoever. Period.

    • ppanthers

      To deny evil is to let it continue. When we recognize the SOURCE from whence this came, then we can begin to resolve this kind of tragedy and teach those who are ignorant of satan’s ways how to avoid being one of his dupes. SATAN hates you and me and wants us all destroyed and in Hell because we are God’s creation. Anyone that doesn’t believe that is floating in outer space somewhere and has no roots in sanity.

  • william russell

    Hey all the father was to busy making movies and money. mother was to busy doing high society things and the kids were left alone. It sounds that the parents gave the kid every material thing he wanted but did not give him the care and love he needed. It said the parents were concern a month ago, this just did not developed in a month but over many years. You as a parent have the responsibility to know your kids and they should be the most important in your life. If you both would have been caring, listening, looks at the signs than this could have been avoided.

  • Sunshine43

    Beautifully and thoughtfully written!

  • glennisw

    There are some people who have no sense of decency, Joe, and you are one of them.

    • nfm

      I firmly believe Joe’s article needed to be stated. The libs are already using this tragedy to push more gun control laws. It’s time for the true problems to be discussed. Yes, a gun was used. But I knife was also used. Have you checked to see how many murders are comitted by knives? The discussion needs to focus on how to help people (like Elliot Rodger) before a tragedy occurs.

  • Michael Barrett

    This killer, like the sandy hook killer, was a highly functional autistic young man. Maybe the discussion should be about not allowing anyone diagnosed as autistic to buy guns. There also ought to be talk about the violent video games which both killers were addicted to and played for hours on end.

    • Richard Haley

      The guns used at Sandy Hook were the boy’s Mother’s.

      • Michael Barrett

        But there was nothing stopping hi.m from owning the gu,ns as this later killer proved. With autism causing such violent outbursts maybe it is time to ban those diagnosed with that from owning guns. And maybe their parents should be told to keep them away from their guns.

        • ppanthers

          All disease, disorders, sickness, whether mental or emotional or physical are of Satan, the father of lies and darkness. God is light and there is no darkness or shadow of turning in Him! Figure it out! The more Harry Potter and Hunger Games and the like we expose those unsuspecting children to, the more this kind of tragedy will happen!

  • Betty4440

    I know what these family’s are going through. and it is if I must say the word pure living hell but I still stand behind the 2nd for my self and any one that wants to. I still have family a son and 2 daughters and grand children and great grand children. that it is my right through GOD AND THE 2ND TO PROTECT THEM IF I CAN AND I WILL DO SO.

  • kugelmum

    Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher this is the nastiest thing I have ever read regarding our American youth being killed aimlessly. You have the second amendment right to use muskets. If you think that is outdated then use a pen and stop using a computer because computers weren’t invented in those days either . Its not a liberal or conservative thing to agree that killing of youth is tragic. Being robbed of your child’s life is more than unbearable. There is nothing to justify selling guns to everyone. Nothing. It used to be a hunting animal thing . Now its a hunting people thing and only the people who have no self esteem are able to arm up and shoot everyone and everything. You never give constructive information on how to solve the problem. You are in denial that there is a problem. Put your energy into helping solve the problem instead of proudly upholding something that is killing our society.

    • CinemaNoir

      kugelmum, what’s killing our society is socialism!!!

      • kugelmum

        Oh please you don’t even know what the word means any longer. Depending on your age group socialism is 3 different meanings. The world has changed so much over the past 40 years that the words mean something different. Like the second amendment. Is a musket still a musket because that’s not working for us Is it?

        • kktex12

          What is killing America is the liberal, progressive, anything goes, amoral, immoral, no responsibility, crowd you obviously are part of. You want to restrict my rights but let you be able to do anything you want without taking responsibility. Please have a lobotomy. It will make your community a safer place to live.

          • nfm

            Well said.

        • onnaquest

          Socialism means the same thing no matter what time period it is in. What changes is how socialists define themselves. They don’t want anyone knowing they are socialists so they are now called progressives. Communists were also once called progressives. They hide their true agendas until they gain enough power and then the trap is snapped shut. That is why the NRA is so critically important. Did you know the NRA was originally started in order to help former slaves to be able to arm and defend themselves following emancipation? True. If you fear facing the truth about socialism, which always means mass deaths eventually if you look at history, then lucky for you lots of people in this country are standing against it and will never cave to that pressure. That’s what socialists are hoping for – that we will all eventually believe that it’s guns that are evil. Once we are disarmed as a nation, anything can happen. So you go on with believing what makes you comfortable and meanwhile lots if us out here will continue to fight to retain the right to defend ourselves.

        • chamuiel

          so, you admit this country is now socialist.

          i bet you are so proud. i bet you voted for owebama.

          second amendment is still a musket.

          try telling me how you liberals interpreted “state shall make no laws regarding religion” to mean separation of church and state.

          Only in the minds of sick liberals.

          Think about it, what else have you gotten wrong?

        • max tague

          Compare the commie manifesto of 1948-58 and the demorat party platform, They and you are the same. look it up.

        • uptohere

          At the time the 2a was written the musket was the assault weapon of choice, individuals also owned cannon. By your logic we should be able to own 20mm Gatling guns and tanks.

          • ron44

            thats right because the enemy used muskets as did the time the 2nd was written,,now they will use the same ones freedom loving Americans will use.

        • Richard Haley

          Please see my post above where I suggested that you get alife!!! I’d bet you’d be the first to complain if your house get robbed with you in it. I’d bet you’d wish you’d have had a gun then.
          And whatever you think of Socialism, I’ll stand by Margearet Thatcher’s comment always. And that is; “Socialism is a wonderfull form of government, until you run out of other people’s money.”
          You cannot see anything that would be rational. Even if it was in front of your own lying eyes.

        • Angus13

          You, Ma’am are ignorant, indoctrinated, and illinformed regarding the Constitution of these United States… Muskets? hunting? WTF? the 2nd refers to Arms, period… at that time, that included Musket, Canon, Sword, etc, and all technology being developed at the time and in the future. Our Fore fathers knew tech would advance just as we know it will today… that is one reason why it was left to the generality of Arms. If you think they were that dumb to not know that tech would advance, seeing how it was even in their time, then you are quite deluded… Hunting? No! it was ment to keep the People Free and Protected… To protect themselves, their family, their State, their Country… Free from those that would do them harm. Free from Foreign Attack and Domestic attack and on the top of it all, Free from a tyrannical government, one that has taken control and power outside that granted to it by the Constitition… to keep the government from becoming what they fought the British to get away from… I suggest you read the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and the other writings of our Founders… Only by doing that, will you know the true meaning and intent of what they wrote in the Constitution… Do not rely on the Biased POLITICAL Interpretations that you see, especially in the Prog talking points or the Judges that have taken power not granted to them by their legislating from the bench and with their feelings, not by the rule of law…

          • usmadgirl

            Angus13,
            THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU & Amen!!!!!

          • MaynardFerguson71

            So aptly put. Thank you

        • CinemaNoir

          Don’t try the old chicken-wing sidestep, kugelmum….. Socialism has not changed, it’s still the tyrannical rule of 99% of the people by the other 1%.

          You won’t find the word “musket” in our Second Amendment, just the
          words “right to be armed shall not be abridged.” That works for me, even though there are mentally ill people who use firearms [most obtained
          illegally] to commit horrid crimes.

          Words mean something, kugelmum ~ try to understand them…..

        • MaynardFerguson71

          You keep harping on muskets but the 2nd amendment says we have the right to bear arms. Arms aren’t muskets. At the time the 2nd amendment was written arms were not only muskets, but also included canons and private citizens owned cannons then too. Nowhere in the constitution does our right to defend ourselves from enemies, both foreign and domestic, limit that to specifically muskets as weaponry. You are trying to twist facts to suit your point of view.

          • kugelmum

            So our children are now enemies,foreign and domestic. ? Its impossible to talk common sense with you.

          • MaynardFerguson71

            You can’t really be that stupid. No one is saying this nut case acted legally or within his rights. The point is HE was a domestic enemy and a properly armed and trained citizen may have been able to stop him sooner and saved lives. The police can’t be everywhere and they don’t have a crystal ball to predict where they will be needed. That’s why I legally and responsibly carry my gun, to protect myself and my family from nuts like this. The reason you can’t talk common sense has nothing to do with me, it is because you have none.

          • kugelmum

            The police where there. They shot at him. I always read “If I was there this wouldn’t happen” Why do you always believe if “you” were there you would have prevented this or saved someone. there are always hundreds of people around when this happens ( like in the movie house) and what do you do? Would you shoot at him even if he is surrounded by innocent people. What happens if you miss and kill someone else.? You are right. I have no comprehension of these kind of situations. I just don’t believe more guns on the scene prevent this. I just try to have common sense.

          • MaynardFerguson71

            They were there and caused the rampage to end. They weren’t there when the people who were killed and wounded were attacked. Those lives may have been spared had the roommates been able to defend themselves or possibly someone along the way could have stopped him sooner. I’ve never said I would have stopped him although I would have tried to kill his demented ass if possible. My point was that nobody even had the chance to stop him because of liberal ideology like yours. The movie house was a gun free zone so I couldn’t have shot back if I had been there because I don’t break the law. I don’t advocate people being irresponsible gun owners. You should train and be prepared to safely use your firearm to defend yourself in any situation and that training includes being able to make accurate shots and being able to make decisions in high pressure situations. Statistics should help you develop common sense…the cities with the toughest gun laws have the highest crime rates. Detroit’s police chief encouraged private citizens to arm themselves. They did and the crime rate has rapidly dropped. This happens every time more law abiding citizens start to defend themselves.

      • Betty4440

        right on.

    • onnaquest

      It was not about hunting. It was about defense, and especially about protection from tyranny. Did you somehow miss those stories about the Holocaust, about the slaughter of Russians, or what Chairman Mao did to the Chinese when he came into power? That, my friend, is why we must have the second amendment. If California was not such a wacky gun-free zone, I doubt he’d have been able to hurt as many people as he did before some conscientious gun owner stopped him. And not necessarily by killing him. Often the threat of a gun is enough to stop many people.

    • chamuiel

      what is killing us in America is your attitude.

    • nfm

      Knives shouldn’t be sold either, right?

      • MaynardFerguson71

        Or cars….think she walks as to avoid those evil cars?

    • MaynardFerguson71

      I’ve lost a wife and a child to a drug addled idiot driving a car too fast and ignoring a red light. I know first hand about losing a son and a spouse at the same time. I never blamed the drugs or the car. It was the idiot who used both recklessly, the day after his license was reinstated after being taken before, I might add. The problem isn’t guns. The problem is demented people. I want my guns to be able to defend myself and my family from these idiots. There was ample time to get this guy help but his parents and the cops failed. No further gun laws would have helped anything. He killed just as many with knives and injured more with a car. He was evil. Period

      • usmadgirl

        Maynard,
        Thank you for your COMMON SENSE comment. You are so right & I’m so very sorry for your tragically senseless loss!

        The sad part of this is the evil, progressive nitwits want to totally abolish OUR second amendment right which “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” but has been over & over (& was purposely put in place by our Founders to protect us from the very government we have today) but they are arming every federal agency in the nation & ALL of our ENEMIES! Those who can’t see this for what it is are complete fools & the only consolation is that those fools will be the first to go!

        • MaynardFerguson71

          Thanks. Its been a long healing process and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I don’t understand these liberal people who can’t see the truth for their feelings. Feelings can be misleading and can cause a lot of problems.

          • usmadgirl

            You’re very welcome. Fortunately, I haven’t lost any of my family to any tragic accidents, but I lost my dad when he was 42, my mom (who never dated or remarried after he died) at 54 & 7 of my 8 aunts & uncles mostly to cancer & my husband died at 54. I’m an only child so I’m so thankful I still have my 2 sons.

            As for liberals’ feelings, I’m not so sure they have “feelings” like the rest of us do! They have their insane agenda & the rest is just a phony act of “caring” about anything else! If it doesn’t promote that agenda, it’s of no significance to them. God bless you & God bless our Republic.

    • Betty4440

      did you mention obama and the dem’s? they are really doing a bang up job I would say.

    • Richard Haley

      Hi! I am not a gun owner. But what follows will be unbelievabl to you and your Ilk.
      I was going to say/write something else, but I’ll just say please get a life. The guns did not kill anyone with out someone pulling the trigger!!
      Was a gun used in this horrible situation earlier in the day???

      • DoubleTap45

        The ONLY reason we are not getting “Sandy Hooked” to death is that it got out EARLY that he stabbed three and ran one down before shooting and that he had multiple magazines so a mag limit was moot.

        Ray from Bloombergia

    • Robert L Nipper

      How misinformed can you be? “Now its a hunting people thing”.??? Lady, gun owners are not “hunting” anybody. What we are doing is attempting to protect ourselves and our families from idiots like this sick jerk. We are also attempting to protect ourselves from a tyrannous government hellbent on controlling our very lives.That is what the 2nd Amendment is all about. You use the same warped reasoning of Harry (the slime) Reid that said the 2nd Amendment only referred to muskets. Now, I want you to concentrate really hard to understand something….take away guns from legal gun owners and only the bad guys will have guns…get it??? The restaurant that boasted a “NO GUNS” area has been robbed three times now by bad guys with guns! What is it that causes your lack of understanding??? Oh…I forgot…Liberalism is a mental disorder…..

      • Northpaw

        Right you are Mr. Nipper. Some armed robber approaches a “This is a gun-free establishment” sign and says, oh shee-yte cant rob this place, will need to find a gun friendly place. Ridiculous? Of course it is but this is what the gun grabbing left offers as protection from the steely eyed thugs who prey on us. Think it through people and you will understand the meaning of “More guns, less crime” by Professor John Lott.

    • ron44

      Is is a cinch you would never mention the hundreds in this country who have had to use a gun to defend themselves or their family on a yearly basis. But then they don’t count to people like you who are to busy hunting for a way to confiscate every gun in America from law abiding citizens. I don’t know who raised you up or what college or university you attended and i really don’t care because people like you will only understand if some one comes after you in the middle of the night too either rob or assault you while taring apart your home and maybe beating your kids or wife. People like you do not care about those who have died at the hands of those will find a way to illegally obtain fire arms no matter what laws are passed, but then laws are made for honest people because hellions will never obey laws.

      • kugelmum

        If there where control on guns or no guns then there wouldn’t be the problem you are suggesting. Work to make your neighborhood a better place and then you will not to worry about someone beating your wife or kids. I have never worried about someone coming in except maybe to steal something. So let them take it but not take a life for a piece of something. I have good locks and call the cops. I don’t need to kill anyone.

  • Robert D Marshner

    First off very well written Sir and I agree with you about our rights . Secondly the fault here llies with the Police who failed so miserably they interviewed Elliot Rodgers and should have taken him in for a 72 hour psychiatric observation to make sure he wasn’t a threat to himself and others it was well with in their desecration to do so they failed and this is the result of that failure . The youtube Videos cleraly disturbed his parents enough to call them to go and check on him .in seeing the videos I myself can plainly see a very disturbed individual crying out for help and recived none . The very people who we trust to protect us from disturbed individual like Elliot Rodger failed Miserably and it’s those police officers that should be blamed here .

    • Betty4440

      the police did not have this child the Roger’ did they first of all should have seen some thing was wrong years earlier. but they failed him and them selves.

  • Bill1966

    One thing I have not heard yet, WHERE did he get the gun/s at? I have not heard if it was multiple weapons or a single weapon nor have I heard any mention of where the weapon was procured. I find it funny that instead of making tougher laws against the criminals who use weapons in commission of a crime, they only focus on disarming us.

    • CinemaNoir

      Bill, obviously you have read or heard very little about this slaughter….. Early on the SB police announced they had recovered three Glock semi-automatic handguns from the suspect’s vehicle, along with a number of loaded, 10-round magazines. Early reports all three handguns had been legally purchased by the suspect. Conclusion: laws cannot protect us from the insanity of any individual.

      Demented as he was, it appears the suspect had not violated any laws pertaining to the purchase of weapons and/or ammunition. What existing law[s] would have prevented that?
      What future law[s] could prevent another such tragedy?

      • kktex12

        It was one Glock and two Sig Sauer pistols He had over 400 rounds left when he was finally stopped.

      • chamuiel

        yep, in kalifornia you cannot legally have over a 10 round magazine.

      • Betty4440

        and he might have been the very one that bought the knives or knife that killed the three room mates. no the focus is just on the guns. give me a break. these men that lost their life are just is important as the ones that got shot their family will suffer the lose like any one else.

      • ppanthers

        Actually, I don’t really believe he was mentally ill. I rather think he was so filled with hate and rage against others that ‘didn’t recognize him for the ‘gift of God’ to us that he was, he willingly took steps to punish all those he hated and wanted revenge upon. I don’t believe he was mentally in-cognizant of what he was doing, quite the opposite if you ask me, after viewing the videos. He knew full well what he was doing and felt justified in doing so. Yes, anyone that kills someone is at least ‘temporarily insane’, but that is because they have agreed with the evil one to destroy. Satan comes not but for to kill, steal and destroy. I am come that you might have life and that more abundantly (Jesus). If we choose the darkness, that is our free will, which God gave to every man. We alone are responsible for the choices we make. Let’s not blame it on mental illness, a convenient excuse to justify evil.

      • GomeznSA

        Actually name deleted had 2 Sig-Sauer P226 9mm and one Glock 34 9mm, all ‘legally’ purchased under kalifornia laws. You are correct, nothing under the existing laws would have prevented the crimes. And that is the fallacy of the hoplophobes demanding even more ‘gun control’ laws.

        • CinemaNoir

          Yes, I misidentified the manufacturers. All three handguns were semi-automatic and all purchased legally. The anti-gun media has yet to investigate how the young and mentally-ill 22-year-old came into possession of the knife [or knives] he used to murder the first three of his six victims. Knife control has yet to emerge as a media lede……

          • GomeznSA

            No problem, most folks wouldn’t know a Glock from a Sig from a banana peel anyway so not to worry.
            You are correct regarding “Knife control” – that will probably never fit the left’s agenda anyway, after all everybody knows that knives are simply tools and have no evil endowed attributes like guns do……………(eyeroll).

          • CinemaNoir

            The majority of the media is in full-cry….. If faux hysteria could be measured it would be 100%, all at the expense of journalistic integrity [laugh!]. Ignore the facts ~ ignore the knives ~ ignore the vehicle ~ GUNS, GUNS, GUNS!!!

            So I again ask any/all member[s] of the media these two questions: What existing law[s] would have prevented the murders in Santa Barbara?
            What future law[s] could prevent another such tragedy?

            The answers to both questions is simply, NOTHING!!!

            But we’ll never get that answer/answers from the rabid pack known as mass, mainstream media…..

    • kugelmum

      The gun shop around the corner, No one wants to disarm you. We just want you to blow out your own brains and leave our kids alone.

      • chamuiel

        well that statement sure makes anything you say useless.

        it wasn’t us honest law abiding gun owners that did this, but a very sick disturbed person, probably a liberal.

    • ppanthers

      He bought them, at different times and at different locations. That was in the news.

      Yes, it’s their opportunity to point out how ‘harmful’ our weapons are, yet they loose criminals out of prison onto the streets of America that aren’t even here legally, and have been convicted of crimes against Americans. A double standard and anything that will serve their purposes is all they are after. They are not out to protect Americans, they are out to destroy us and exploit anything that enables them to further their agendas!

  • DrSique

    Another mass murderer who was under psychiatric care and police supervision and, still, the guns caused it. Another call to usurp the individual rights of Americans to NOT have this type of violence visited upon their families. The disturbed young man who victimized others, in California, reportedly has Aspergers Syndrome, just like the Sandy Hook killer. Before jumping on the gun grabbing band wagon, perhaps we should wait to see if they were on the same, or similar, medications. Our rights are called individual for a reason, so that one person’s don’t trump the rights of another. If they were collective, they would be vulnerable to popular opinion. What this grief stricken father fails to understand is how much violence will be needed to disarm Americans and how much violence they may be subjected to once defenseless. Is he ready to assume responsibility for that???

    • Sunshine43

      He complained of severe paranoia and heard “voices”, combined with Asberger’s! It has been reported that he refused to take the medication prescribed for him!
      Allowing him to live on his own was also a monumental mistake!
      There were so many red flags that were missed!

      • tionico

        it seems the red flags were not missed, they were ignored. Police questioned him, they thought he was such a nice boy.. and were unable to “find any gun history”, het he had THREE handguns, registered…… by law, must be with the local sheriff, and/or the same police department that sent their “finest” to question him. What, were they wilfully turning a blind eye? There WAS a “history of guns”, but they were too lazy/iincompetent (pardon the redundancy) to find it.

        • ppanthers

          Well, satan likes to hide. He tells the person or ‘house’, the one he resides in, what to do and how to do it. He is controlled by evil and has opened the door to the evil one that resides in him.

      • ppanthers

        “Hearing ‘voices’” is nothing more than demonic activity and denotes someone so possessed by satan through exposing his mind to all of the satanic influenced information and propaganda, including things like Hunger Games, that he has become totally controlled and influenced by these demons and is being instructed to do satan’s bidding!

    • ppanthers

      Or so ‘THEY’ say! A convenient excuse to commit murder and get away with it, though in this case, he didn’t. Sandy Hook was a hoax, to begin with, look it up!

  • anarchyst

    …we are constantly reminded not to judge all muslims “by the actions of a few”. Shouldn’t the same criteria apply to all (honest) gun owners????

    • kktex12

      You are comparing apples and oranges. The cult of islam and its’ shariah law component are dedicated to world domination. We would have no freedoms and there would not be any other faith allowed as the cult of islam forbids any other under penalty of death.

    • http://blaze.com/ mathchopper

      It should but… that logic is not part of the “agenda”.

  • anarchyst

    …we are constantly reminded not to judge all muslims “by the actions of a few”. Shouldn’t the same criteria apply to all (honest) gun owners???

    • kugelmum

      What is a honest gun owner? This was a model good NRA approved man with guns who went on to be a mass murderer.

      • kktex12

        Who said he was approved by the NRA???? Who said he was a member of the NRA?? He was APPROVED by the STATE OF CALIFORNIA to purchase his guns. You are just hysterical and a liar.

        • Betty4440

          hey wander how much money California got so this person could have guns?

      • chamuiel

        lie much, lie often, huh kugel troll.

      • nfm

        Was he also “approved” by BMW?

      • MaynardFerguson71

        A good NRA approved man? I didn’t know they had an approval list. Could you please provide a link to this list? He was a spoiled lunatic who’s anti gun and anti NRA daddy bankrolled his delusions with money made from films filled with violence and death. Hypocritical much? He had signs of his violent behavior well in advance yet his distraught daddy blames the NRA for his own short comings and you’re right on the same bandwagon. Good job.

  • Brian Bertha

    This kid planned this in advance he wasn’t mentally ill he was plain evil’ I agree with Joe good letter

  • furbert

    The drama queen father, dropping to the floor, screaming about gun control etc. etc. etc. is happily rolling in his son’s blood. The guy is a well known liberal, very anti-NRA and hates the idea anyone can have a gun. What a surprise he’s going full kabuki about this. Like the “useful idiots from Connecticut, expect to see this lowlife on every news show.

    • kugelmum

      You are one sick nut. You obviously have never loved and lost a child. Try God in your life . If you have a life.

      • kktex12

        The man told the truth and as a liberal you cannot handle it. By the way, I have 5 kids and I totally agree with furbert.

      • rocquedog

        I have God in my life. He once told his disciples to arm themselves in order to protect themselves from thieves and murderers. And I love my child as much as any other parent and I will teach them to be responsible, caring and able to defend themselves against the monsters in our society. As well as to defend their rights against those libtarded idiots that try to take away their rights to self defense.

        • ppanthers

          Right you are!

        • Clarissa

          Ephesians 6:14-17: “Stand firm then with the belt of truth bucked around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.”

        • kugelmum

          Turn the other cheek! That’s what Jesus said. And He didn’t have a political party. Why is it liberal who are always blamed. I am a conservative . Better off teaching your children to be secure in their minds and have strong arguements to discuss. Not having to use their weapons to win an argument or “their rights”.

      • kris littlefield

        Three young men were stabbed to death and the guy tried to run two cyclists over with his car. I don’t hear anyone screaming to eliminate knives or cars. I feel bad for the families of those three stabbing victims. Their deaths have taken a back seat to the deaths of those that were shot. The news media should be ashamed. They go on and on about the shooting victims and then it’s an “oh by the way” for the stabbing victims. Those boys are just as dead as the ones that were shot and the families are just as grief stricken.

        • nfm

          Well put!

        • Charles P

          You are right!
          Why are the Hollywood people always pushing the anti-gun issue, WHILE ALWAYS MAKING FILMS FILLED WITH MAJOR FIREARM SCENES!!

          • ppanthers

            Well, it’s their prime opportunity to grab the headlines and use it in their campaign on their agenda to disarm Americans! Yes, no mention of other ‘weapons’, just the guns, most feared by the Left because it keeps us free and independent of MONSTER GOVERNMENT!

          • laboop2u

            While they all have armed guards!

          • Ewade

            The real hypocrisy is, why do we continue to watch them. I refuse to go to a theater to line the pockets of the Hollywood elite. They all think their fans are trash.

        • GomeznSA

          You are absolutely correct. One of the news stories regarding the incident – which was actually a series of crimes (10 separate ones I believe) – was reported as a ‘shooting and stabbing’. Note well the order – and this was on a less than liberal local news outlet. The focus will continue to be on the ‘evil guns’ and not all of the other horrific crimes, that doesn’t fit with the liberal guns are bad theme.

      • max tague

        What he said is quite true, and you sir, voted for 1/2 white muslam .twice.

      • Larry

        You have to understand something, furbert is right. Antis will do a lot of thing to for their agenda. If it had been my son, I sure would not be standing in front of a mic demanding gun control not that soon. I have God in my life but I am not blinded by these kind of guys.

  • NoRINO

    Thanks Joe, you are a much better man than I am with your thoughtful words, I would have tell it like it is, to the Martinez.

    • kktex12

      My response to Martinez is , Molon Labe!

  • Douglas Nicholson

    I can answer the question in the cartoon. Psychotropic drugs (Ritalin, Ativan, Cymbalta, etc.)! ALL of the killers in mass shootings in the last 15 years have been on some form of them.

    • bob_seifert

      A good place to start looking for all the drugs that these people were on is here
      http://www.ssristories.org/

      They try to document from reliable news sources the drugs that were prescribed to these people. Over 5,000 stories so far. Media fails to make the connection, but they NEVER miss an opportunity to connect a gun do they?

      • Flip3206

        I believe you may have cause and effect reversed here. People aren’t going crazy because they’re on these medications; they’re on these medications because they’re going crazy. I take an SSRI every day, and I can tell you that I’m much more calm and rational with the medication than without. I take the medication for an anxiety disorder, but since I’ve been on the drug Sertraline, a generic form of Zoloft, I also get angry less often, and am much more easy going. The people I know who are on other SSRI’s are likewise very easy going and non-violent. If someone goes berserk, it’s not BECAUSE of their medication; it’s IN SPITE OF it. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right medication and the right dose. Also, a mental illness can be misdiagnosed just like any other malady, and people are therefore treated with the wrong medication.

        • Jeff Horton

          I think the problem is some people think they don’t need the drugs anymore. They quit taking them and then the trouble starts.

          • bob_seifert

            agreed, and the companies that produce the drugs make sure that their name never comes up in all of this because they are buying the air time financing so much advertising.

          • Tommy Cheatham

            In some cases I agree, but we can see with this guy and the Sandy Hook guy (I don’t like using their names to increase their infamy) they had planned things out for months or longer. That isn’t snapping from suddenly stopping meds, that’s an evil person planning evil.

          • Mel Cardonell

            absolutely..just common sense

        • bob_seifert

          Don’t get me wrong here and I mean no offense by posting what I did so please don’t take it personally. But I do see a connection here and your point is valid to a degree but there is also something that is not being discussed.
          We have become a nation of quick fixes and “take a pill”. Instead of a faith based nation where people helped one another and pulled together as neighbors we have drifted to a nation of – it isn’t my problem let someone else take care of it and that someone has turned out to be nobody or a government safety net.
          Where people would once turn to their churches they now turn to a psychiatrist. Big pharma has cashed in and they did it in a big way. Watch any commercial introducing antidepressants on TV and listen how they talk about benefits then the side effects. They know full well once you start taking these medications very often it changes the chemical balances in your physiology sometimes permanently. Yet the first thing that most ‘counselors’ do is write a prescription after a 45 minute meeting then take a wait and see attitude.
          I agree, many people benefit from these drugs, yet I honestly think that many people today are over medicated or medicated inappropriately. Either way, one thing is for certain – there is a direct link between people on medications or people who stop taking them and irrational acts that the media will NEVER cover. They will blame guns, because big pharma will buy their silence.

          • Flip3206

            According to the news story I read, this guy stopped taking his medication and going to therapy when he was 18. He is now 22. So he isn’t suddenly off his medication; he’s been off of it for four years. Yes, he apparently had some Vicodin, a powerful pain killer, and some Xanax, which is a tranquilizer that only works for a few hours at a time, and would not alter his brain chemistry in such a way as to heal him of his mental illness or to make him go crazy. Elliot Rodger rejected his therapy and medication four years ago, and that has way more to do with him being crazy than whatever medication he used to take. You are correct that some medications, like the one I take, alter the brain chemistry, but people don’t start taking them unless there brain chemistry is ALREADY out of wack. The goal of using the medications is to alter one’s brain chemistry so it goes back to the way it’s supposed to be.

            I don’t know where you get your information about counselors who meet you for 45 minutes, give you a prescription, and take a “wait and see” attitude. Maybe that was your experience or the experience of someone you know. I can only say that my therapist said that the best way to treat my anxiety disorder was a combination of therapy and medication. I wanted to try therapy alone and see if that would work for me, and so we tried it that way first. My therapist let ME make the decision to try medication. And my therapy continued for about a year after that, so I wasn’t just left to a wait and see attitude.

            I’m not saying all therapists are like mine, but I will not be convinced that most therapists are the way you describe them unless you can cite a source, or in some other way demonstrate that you’re in a position to know what most therapists are like.

            And I was not offended by your statement. I hope your are not offended by mine.

          • bob_seifert

            I got most of my information on this guy from his own manifesto, I took the time to read the 141 page manifesto. He stated that he had been seeing counselors since 13, the papers said 8. The last time he reported seeing a counselor was at Christmas at the age of 21. His parents had him going back to one.

            The source of my information on counselors in based upon how things are done in the State of NY from a professional view. Having worked in a profession where I was dealing with people who had been run through the mental health system like cattle instead of people I have seen it first hand.
            I do not want to give the impression I was a mental health professional, but rather a profession that was occasionally dealing with people who was referring people to or handling people who had gone through the mental health profession.

            At one point NYS even just dumped patients from mental health facilities onto the streets into public homes because they could no longer afford the costs of keeping them. I am telling you first hand these people, at least MANY of them should not have been left on their own.

            Today, many people are seen in mental health clinics here. A clinical psychologist sees them for one visit, rubber stamps them, gives them a drug then assigns them another counselor to follow up who is not educated enough or licensed to prescribe drugs. They just sit and counsel weekly and file reports. The patients never seethe original ‘doctor’ who prescribed the drugs for them in the first place.

            So again, my frustration is this. People have real problems, they are not being treated, just medicated – perhaps with a proper medication, perhaps not. Someone then talks to them who may or may not be qualified to even really judge if the medication is working properly (how would they know? they didn’t talk to them the first time) Yet if something goes wrong and they use a gun as this Rodgers kid did, what is the immediate issue at blame? The gun! Already in NYS our sick twisted Governor and his staff are saying this whole incident proves that this is a call for more gun control.

            All it proves to me is that Eliot Rodgers was a sick kid that never got the right kind of help he needed. That attention may have been parental, mental, spiritual or chemical .. but whatever it was this was not a gun problem. The kid had a very twisted view of the world and how he fit in it.

            No I am not offended at all by your statements, I really appreciate them and I am truly very happy that you have someone in the health care community that takes the time to help you. I am glad that there are medications that work for you and more to the point that you are not just just given a pill and told to go away as if you were just a money machine for some doctor. I appreciate knowing that people like you are here to tell another side to the story I never got to see much of.

          • Larry

            Psychiatric treatment at the VA, see doc every six months, on antidepressants. Prime example of what has been said.

        • wandamurline

          Sometimes it is because they are “off” their medications. Worked inlocked psychiatric ward for years..have seen some really messed up people.

      • Michael Ward

        So true we’ve become such a pill popping nation

    • chynna

      Sorry, all of those people has access to weapons.

      • NameNotGiven

        like the knife and hammer he used to kill half his victims? and like the knives, hammers and baseball bats with which most insane people murder others with?

        • Helen Wheels

          Hurrrrr durrrrrrr FauxNoise talking point #53423

          • US Army (retired)

            Drooling, Kool-Aid drinking liberal talking point #123456!

          • Kent2012

            she probably supports taxpayer paid murder of babies……I never get a coherent answer when I ask “Why demand an end to the death penalty, yet you support abortion?”, we do know the answer though….it is cowardice combined with a low IQ, laced with an education from the commies that have entered the teaching profession….we now are faced with the pseudo intellectuals…

          • daisykmt

            Well said, Kent2012. Though sometimes there are high IQ’s, just liberal indoctrination blinding out common sense. Case in point: why in the world do most (if not all?) mass shootings occur at GUN-FREE zones?!

          • johnh

            They all have one thing in common. THEY ARE ALL COWARDS. They know they can do more of their evil ways there before getting caught.

          • daisykmt

            Thank you, US Army(retired), for your service.

          • thegreatamerican

            That big a freaking moron
            It’s shot bags like this that makes me gladly carry. It’s morons like yourself that will wish there was someone else that can defend you when it hits the fan. As good as our police is where I live a person with bad intentions can cause a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

          • siquijorisland

            no the truth nothing to question

      • shoemama

        Not all weapons are guns. If someone wants to create mayhem, there are hundreds of items they can use. It is NOT the ITEM that kills. It is the human involved. All ropes, knives, fertilizers, and even WATER would have to be banned!

        • Helen Wheels

          Ooooh better hide under your bed! Oh wait.. maybe not, perhaps the heels of your shoes can kill you.

          • daisykmt

            He murdered his first 3 victims with a knife, yet I’ve heard nothing condemning knives from the msm.

          • paulli

            You do understand the role the guns also played in those murders? I know you’re not so completely stupid to think that he simultaneously fought and killed three roommates with a knife…

          • daisykmt

            I’ve read several sources, but haven’t seen about guns yet in the initial attack on the three at his apartment . The only details I’ve found on that is that he hit them in the head with a hammer first, then stabbed them and slit their throats. I can only assume they must not have entered all at one time, or else—if at the same time—being a surprise attack, he hit before they had time to react. At any rate, a knife and a hammer seem to have been the weapons of choice.

          • johnh

            I took it that all three were asleep when he killed them. This person was a coward and would not confront someone that could fight back. I hope the young lady that he shot at and missed understands that she is blessed and does good and great things in the future.

          • paulli

            Come on Daisy. I have faith that you can figure this out if you think. If you had a knife, hammer and guns, and wanted to torture three people but had to get control of them, how would you do it? Hope that they’re all asleep at 9 pm and attack each individually and hope that they don’t make a sound to awake the others? Surprise attack all of them at once with a knife??? You have a gun. What do you do? I know this is tough because you have to think for yourself Daisy, but it’s good practice.

          • daisykmt

            I have a Master’s degree, post-graduate hours, and have taught school for 34 years—I’ve had to do a lot of thinking for myself, paulli.

            I do enjoy commenting on various sites occasionally, but always hope that disagreements can be done respectfully. As I replied to you at another spot, we can just agree to disagree. I can appreciate your commitment to your view. I, too, am committed to mine.

          • grrretchen

            Have you actually read somewhere that he used a gun in addition to the knife and hammer in the first three murders?

        • daisykmt

          Shoemama, you are using common sense. You’ll be getting sarcasm from the left any time now. Wait for it . . .

      • thegreatamerican

        I guess the knives he killed the first victims with are forgotten? Eventually you will look at the person and realize that he could use anything as a weapon, including a knife, car, rock, stick and gun. It’s not the tool. It’s the idiot.

    • Helen Wheels

      According to his manifesto, he refused to be medicated.

      • bob_seifert

        He said “The doctor ended up dismissing it by prescribing me a controversial medication, Risperidone. After researching this medication, I found that it was the absolute wrong thing for me to take. I refused to take it, and I never saw Dr. Sophy again after that.” So we don’t know if he took it then researched it later, or if he was on other medications. He had been seeing this doctor for years, I highly doubt that this was the first drug that the doctor prescribed for him. But I would be really interested in knowing.

      • bob_seifert

        And not to be contradictory but he certainly was on other medications. He said at the end of his manifesto “To end my life, I will quickly swallow all of the Xanax and Vicodin pills I have left” The vicodin was probably from the leg injury, but the Xanax was certainly not, it is a mood altering drug is it not?

        • magic1114

          Correct. It’s a tranquilizer…

          • bob_seifert

            I suspect that the young ‘man’ was on much more than this through his life. My point is that the media will NEVER bring it up, but it should be a point of discussion IMO. I think it is a far more pertinent point of of all of this (his mental state and how it was or was not being handled) than the issue of firearms.
            Again, and I want to stress this very strongly, I believe that there is a need for these drugs and properly prescribed I believe that they can be very helpful and beneficial to some people. But I think that sometimes people are just being given drugs and shoved in a corner and forgotten about.
            If this kid had some morals, thinking that sex wasn’t the end all be all of existence, say from a proper church or upbringing maybe his outlook would have been better and he wouldn’t have done these things.
            Perhaps instead of having six counselors, he needed a priest? Just a thought.

    • http://www.cleanfunnypics.com/ Shelley

      I’ve seen that too and it troubles me. It troubles me because these drugs do help many – clearly not all – but I would hate for those who these meds are working for have to stop taking them…

  • garysvent

    Thank the liberal pussy-footers who rejected the notion that the mentally ill should be kept away from society and be allowed to roam free. Thank them for making it insanely difficult to put the mentally ill in an institution where they can’t hurt anyone. (The mentally ill in Congress are another matter; they hurt everyone). Thank the liberals for many of the homeless, who would be cared for if it weren’t for liberal policies that loose the mentally ill from the places that could help them. And while you’re at it, thank liberals for the dead who are murdered by those who should have been kept locked up in mental wards or prisons. You can thank wrong-headed liberals for these things, which came about because liberals were more interested as being SEEN as compassionate than being compassionate.

    And thank the liberal establishment culture mavens for glorifying fornication to the point that this disturbed creature was led to think he was entitled to sex.

    • tlk244182

      Your last point is the most important one. “Liberalism” has poisoned the culture and this event is merely one of the symptoms of the sexual revolution. This was a sex crime, not a gun crime. And of course, it goes without saying that if his victims had been proficient with a handgun and armed, the story would be completely different.

      • Betty4440

        HE WAS A SPOILED ROTTEN KID AND GREW UP HAVING EVERY THING WE WANTED. NO ONE EVER TELLING HIM NO YOU CAN’T HAVE THAT, NO YOU CAN’T DO THAT, NO YOU CAN’T GO YOU ARE GROUNDED, AND MORE THAN LIKELY HE NEVER GOT HIS BACK SIDE WHIPPED, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE CHILD ABUSE, BUT HE MIGHT HAVE TURNED OUT TO BEEN A BETTER PERSON. SPARE NOT THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD. I DO BELIEVE IN THIS AND IT IS ALSO FROM THE HOLY BIBLE. I grew up with this and applied to my own children and my grand children if they were in my home. they followed my rules or else.

        • Laddyboy

          Stop SREAMING!

          • ppanthers

            Why shouldn’t we scream? That is about all we can do about any of it, isn’t it?

        • Raymond Donahue

          I never read posts from irrational people who scream.

          • ARETHEYNUTS

            More than likely an elderly woman who can’t see well.

          • chynna

            We all have adjustments on our monitors to allow for visual impairment.

        • Bill Pavuk

          I agree with you that this young man’s sense of privilege and entitlement (which may or may not have come from a home that lacked discipline and boundaries) seemed to contribute to this sick, twisted world view full of hate and rage. I agree that by all indications he was very much in need of someone to intervene with serious discipline and consequences and had that happened likely we’re not discussing this. That said, as a pastor, I would ask that you please refrain from the “spare the rod, spoil the child” expression. I know that for many of us corporal punishment was a good deterrent that taught us respect and self-control. But this is not at all what the scripture is actually saying. NO ONE in the first century or previous centuries within the Jewish family model had any concept of “the rod” as something to use to strike a child. The rod was used in instruction, or discipline. Bear in mind that discipline derives from a word meaning “student.” I know it seems like a small, petty thing, and I understand that you, like many, have spent much of your life hearing that this scripture is God’s way of saying that if we don’t use the rod, or belt, or our bare hand from time to time, we may be going too light on our children. But as a pastor, it’s a real peeve of mine how often this passage gets applied in ways that are so off from what it actually said.

          • daisykmt

            Not being difficult or sarcastic, because I do not want to ever be tho’t to be in opposition to the Bible. I would like to hear an explanation of exactly what is meant by that passage of Scripture.

        • Helen Wheels

          Why so yelly?

        • johnh

          Every child deserves a spanking some times. The earlier in life they are corrected the less you will have to do it. NO child deserves a beating. The person giving the spanking needs to give it a few seconds to think and cool down so the spanking does not turn into a beating. Some kids are very trying and know how to push your buttons.

      • Ewade

        That’s a stretch. I heard there were guns involved, I didn’t hear sex anywhere except in this nutcase’s delusional rant. How was it a sex crime?

        • Larry

          Then you need to read about this case. Yes there were guns involved, legally bought in one of the most heavily gun controlled states in the Union. However, the guns were not used until after he killed three people by stabbing them to death. Even though he had the guns with him, it sounds like the shooting were an after thought.

          • devodude

            No not an afterthought part of the plan. Had he shot his roommates the gunfire would have put an end to his plan at that building. Knives are silent allowing him to use his firearms in outdoor locations. He spoke of the weapons he had as part of his grand scheme. You cons have done all you can to ensure the mentally ill can continue on this path unrestricted by law.

          • Rodney Lee Conover

            when someone showed up with a gun, it ended.

          • NameNotGiven

            Yeah the Libs don’t realize that knives actually have a higher fatality rate per attack (30%fatlity vs 10% fatality with gun shot, a 3x increased lethality)
            The left has blocked and done all it can to insure that the roommates who were knifed to death could not find out this guy with a diagnosed dangerous condition was rooming with them.

          • Kent2012

            yes, but those are actual facts…commies and wannabes have no need for facts…they rely simply on hysteria….

          • Jebhel

            Nothing in this crime was an afterthought. He bought more guns, in case one jammed. And he speaks of the feeling of power his first gun purchase gave him.

        • Skepticles

          “That’s a stretch. I heard there were guns involved, I didn’t hear sex anywhere except in this nutcase’s delusional rant. How was it a sex crime?” -Ewade

          How is rape a crime of violence? Maybe other pertinent factors are in play but not readily obvious.

          • mmoommist

            If rape wasn’t violent then it probably wouldn’t be a crime. If you read his ‘manifesto’ you would know it was a sex crime and he was out to kill “blonde women”… Why? Because they didn’t fling their undivided attention upon him. Women are the root of all evil was what he was saying and therefore shouldn’t be allowed to live. This wacko didn’t deserve to die, he should have be put in chains in the public square and let the dogs feed on him daily. As for gun control that is just nuts, no matter how many gun laws, it will never stop the criminals from using them and if it isn’t the nut jobs, it will be those who take the guns away. Okay, I’m done rambling.

          • Rodney Lee Conover

            not all rape is violent. When a woman is drugged, quite often it’s not. It’s still a crime of violence and invasion – not sex in many cases. Try thinking outside your own world for a moment. this kid was confused sexually, clearly and hated his own feelings, clearly – and hated himself. clearly. The crimes were the manifestation. Thank-you, that will be $165

          • Bill Pavuk

            How is rape a crime of violence? Physically forcing a person to be penetrated sexually against their will. Have you ever seen photos of a person’s genital or anal areas after being raped? Are you really, seriously unclear how rape is a crime of violence?

          • chynna

            Rape is a violent crime as it is about forcing someone against their will. There is frequently a lot of lacerations, broken bones and physical damage done.

        • jime1

          Well it’s not all that hard to figure out, and a rather logical conclusion actually. This idiot was P Oed because females didn’t find him appealing. Creeps are creeps, but this creep took out his frustration on whoever. In simple terms he couldn’t get laid so he went postal! Got it? Therefore, sex, or the lack thereof seems to that have been the root cause of his sick mind, hence the conclusion of it being a sex (motivated) crime. OK, it might be a stretch, but something set this fool off and his u tube rant strongly suggests his creepy sick nature and sexual frustration was or easily could have been the likely cause. Two plus two usually comes out four, unless you have a mind like this sick fool had!!
          Who’s fault is all this? The fools who raised him, they are as responsible as he is and should be held accountable !!!
          Say what? Yes responsible! If your pit bull bites and injures someone you are responsible. IF you’re responsible for what your dog does how can you NOT be responsible for what you brat does?????????????????????

        • tlk244182

          Not to put too fine a point on it, he didn’t rape his victims, he shot them instead. I was attempting an indictment of modern, ‘liberal’ sexuality by calling these murders a consequence of the dismantling of traditional Christian morality. I’m giving a Right Wing answer to the claim that this crime was caused by inadequate gun control. My point is: rather than restrict handgun ownership further, let’s restrict the mainstreaming of what used to be called “immorality” i.e. fornication, divorce, abortion, homosexuality, etc. I understand why someone might consider this a stretch, but IMO, it’s no more of a stretch than the idea that “guns” are responsible.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            Fornication, divorce, abortion, homosexuality, etc., have all been a part of society for any measurable span of history (some longer than others). Maniacs going on rampages with guns have only been around as long as guns.

            It is FALSE to say that “modern liberal sexuality” and what you consider to be immorality are “responsible” for this. All social trends point towards a higher sense of morality in modern society, not lower. It’s certainly open to debate about WHAT is considered moral, or which expression of morality trumps another, but the fact is people are, generally, getting “better” in the world.

            There will always be lunatics that want to harm others. The question is, how easy do we make it for them, or what do we do to mitigate the amount of harm they can cause?

          • tlk244182

            “Human sexual attraction, after all, is not an egalitarian arrangement.
            The disappearance of culturally-mandated restraints on sexual etiquette
            generally means that the strong are allowed to run roughshod over the
            weak. Within such a paradigm, social misfit oddballs like Rodger—those
            loathed “omega males”—catch
            the brunt of the rejection being dished out; if such as these are
            already prone to instability, then failure can fuel hatred and rage, and
            personal heartbreak can easily escalate into broader spasms of terror,
            bloodshed and tragedy.” Andy Nowiki

          • tlk244182

            “Such harebrained utopian notions have proved impractical and, moreover,
            impossible. Their baleful and malignant influence has been far-reaching,
            and has resulted in the overall erosion of manners, morals, human
            restraint, and common decency. Today, the “liberated” sexual marketplace
            is a hundred times more cruel and ruthless than the more civilized
            mores which prevailed in the past. “Rejects” and “losers” simply have no
            safety net within the current paradigm” Andy Nowiki Altenative-right blog spot

          • daisykmt

            “higher sense of morality in modern society”—-We can’t even let our 4- and 5-yr. old grandchildren watch regular tv without hearing tv’s profanity and seeing vulgarity, promiscuity, & disrespect. We had to subscribe to Netflix to be able to get very much children’s programming when they’re here.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            I know for a fact that there are shows on broadcast and cable TV that children can watch. A free society shouldn’t dictate what can or can’t be said on television (yet, thanks to the FCC, our does). Shows generally inform viewers what kind of content they will have via ratings. This just means that parents and grandparents may need to observe what the child is about to watch – it takes some effort, in other words, if there are things you prefer your children not to see or hear. To say that strong language, sexual imagery, or violence on television is proof that morality has declined is simply not accurate. Television has had strong language, sexual imagery, and violence for decades, and other forms of media in history have been no better or worse.

          • daisykmt

            Yes, there are some appropriate shows. As for the last four lines of your post, I simply agree to strongly disagree.

          • Juggy Brodleteen

            You disagree that parents (or grandparents) should take an active role in monitoring what their children watch or hear, especially on television? I guess that’s a matter of perspective, but what do you suggest as an alternative? That there be, forcibly, less sex and violence on television? Who gets to decide what is “immoral?” Some scary things to think about there.

            The fact that television has had strong language, sexual imagery, and violence for decades is simply true, whether you disagree or not. Since at *least* the 80s, this content on TV has changed little from then to now. Maybe it’s “grittier” or “more realistic” now, but those are just advancements in technology, not increases in “immoral content.”

          • daisykmt

            “You disagree that parents (or grandparents) should take an active role in monitoring what their children watch or hear, especially on television?” . . . That is not what I said. It’s because we do monitor that we’ve found there is so little that’s age-appropriate to them at any given hour in the day.
            I would like to see the networks curb the profanity, promiscuity, etc, and leave that to the cable companies. Many tastes are catered to, and everyone gets what they want. As for the weakening & relaxing of morals, etc, I stand by what I said. I will repeat—We can agree to disagree. You have a right to your opinion. So do I. I will not apologize for it. I’m not interested in arguing—I stand by what I said.

          • Kent2012

            I tried to give juggy a bit of a heads up on what really needs to be “outlawed”, but, like many, his heroine is that former beauty queen contestant, dianny feinsteiny hinny….

        • Juggy Brodleteen

          Ewade, you won’t get an honest answer to this. Those who have irrational fears for their gun rights will paint this in any way they can that distracts from the obvious – this lunatic shot up a bunch of people. With guns.

          • Bill Harris

            And Im sure he would have stopped with the knife after killing the first three if no gun was allowed to be had…Hahahaha wake up tool people will find a way to kill, anything can be used as a weapon…so go troll somewhere else..

          • Kent2012

            and he stabbed folks and he ran over others with his car With knives and a car. Cowardice about gun ownership is not a solution, but the front door to tyranny from an already arrogant government…

        • NameNotGiven

          yoo heard guns were involved? most of the victims of this guy killed and injured were killed by knife, hammer and car and not guns

        • johnh

          He was mad because women would not go out with him. I wonder if he ever really ask a woman out and just thought that they would not go with him.

      • Juggy Brodleteen

        This was a sex crime, not a gun crime? You can’t possibly be serious? Rodgers clearly had issues with women, not to mention issues with his mental health, but this was NOT a sex crime. This was a murderous rampage, made easier and more deadly thanks to easy access to firearms.

        • shoemama

          Don’t forget the knife!

          • ERB

            and the car

          • Kent2012

            ERB come on now, there are only 30,000 to 40,000 car murders each year, how can that equate ? We can not let the facts get in the way…that would be the same as voting for someone from africa that is a avid supporter of communism and a hardline racist……and then calling a Real American that disagrees with this pretender a racist…….

          • Kent2012

            he did, most brain-dead twits ignore any instrument used to murder someone and insist only that “guns kill”…..Their lack of education is demonstrated by those comments in the face of the reported murders and which weapon has been used. When you are a commie lemming you just keep on spouting the party line….

        • daisykmt

          If one of the first 3 killed had had his concealed carry, someone would still have died, but they didn’t all die at the exact same moment. One of the others could potentially have stopped this “virgin killer” with a legal firearm. Because of the black market, there will always be access to guns for criminals. It’s the unarmed in gunfree zones who are the sitting ducks. The woman who went out to lunch with her elderly parents at a Luby’s said when the gunman opened fire, all she could think about was how she had left her legally-obtained firearm in her car. She said if she had taken it in with her, her parents would still be alive. The major catastrophes are happening in gun-free zones. Again, criminals will always have guns.

        • Zebowillis

          So the four men he murdered meant nothing?

    • Bill1966

      I am with you that we need to keep the mentally disturbed off the streets, but I think we should put them all together in a camp setting. They could get the care they need and also be part of a community this way. Do not construe this as my being FOR libtards policies, I am totally against them. We USED to just lock these people up, which did not help them in any way. This young man needed help and did not get it. The MSM is not focusing on ANY of his previous encounters with law enforcement, who should have done something to get him some help. Instead they are ONLY focusing on the three SHOOTING deaths, not on the three room mates he butchered with a knife. The only report I could find on what the police found was on a German news site. This was one disturbed young man, but we the conservatives will pay the price for it.

      • Doris C

        How many of these other incidents your talking about with law enforcement get taken care of by his “RICH” parents? Maybe being a director does not mean your rich actually. But surely someone got him out of trouble the other times.

        • James Stafford

          The other incidents with law enforcement were not the types of things that get taken care of by anyone, except the person himself. They were not violent episodes, sexually predatory, or other things that could have landed him in jail. They were suspicions that were brought to law enforcement’s attention by the parents because they saw something that appeared to be abhorrent to his usual behavior. However, he was a great actor and convinced LEOs that there was nothing to be concerned about, when actually there was. The truth is, this was really no one’s fault except the perpetrator’s.
          This whole scenario is talked about extensively in the scriptures. We are given challenges to help us grow. We have been told that we are never given a challenge that we are not able to overcome, if we use not only our power, but the power of all of those around us – seen and unseen. Our problem is, unlike Job, we do not use all of the power available to us and therefore become angry and frustrated and sometimes do foolish things, as this young man did. It is a fact of life. Until the millennium, we will never see this type of tragedy obliterated, because the hearts of the people are carnal, and turn away from the truth and light.

          • GomeznSA

            Hmmm, perhaps so, but name deleted stated in his ‘manifesto’ that if the coppers had pursued the issue further they would have figured out what he was apparently planning AND found the guns – which apparently – again according to him – would have taken away the means to do his crimes.

          • Kokopelli Miu

            Wow… Just. Wow… The sociopathy of you and Joe here is astounding. Infact if I cut away the misogyny from you guys you have less compassion than the biblical sanhedrin had for Jesus and since you wish you were in Colombia I have this answer to you stone hearted men:

            “אֶרְצֶה וְשֶׁלֶם מְרִיאֵיכֶם לֹא אַבִּיט

            הָסֵר מֵעָלַי הֲמוֹן שִׁרֶיךָ וְזִמְרַת נְבָלֶיךָ לֹא אֶשְׁמָע”

            For you hold yourself above LORD and say;

            ‘Come let us bring about the final judgement!

            For we are the Blessed and the Saved.’

            And when you stand before the LORD;

            on that final day of judgement;

            You shall wait,

            as before you go men and women.

            Of the likes of them you said: ‘Cursed are them! For they shall have no place in Paradise, for Gehenom is their fate!’

            Before you shall go what you call ‘unsaved’ men, Sodomizers, Abortionists,

            Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, Christians, and Atheists,

            (though there will be a number of all these types waiting with you).

            Behind you shall be the worst of humanity, those that murdered thousands or millions without remorse.

            And when each of those before you reaches the holy throne they shall be judged, in silence to those around them.

            When you reach the throne you will go up to it proudly and with no doubt about your salvation,

            for have not you been washed in the blood of the lamb?

            And The LORD shall pronounce his sentence in a voice both loud and terrible and silent:

            ‘Hell.’

            And chained in a thousand chains (each link the size of the universe) Shall Satan rebuke The LORD, saying thus:

            ‘Did not they wash their sins in the waters of Baptism? What right have you to withdraw your gift from man? They belong not in Gehenom.’

            So the LORD will answer:

            ‘They have drowned their compassion in the waters of baptism, thrown the poor and needy to be gored by the bulls and bears of Mammon, perverting the law and conducting gross injustices in the name of salvation and liberty.’

            and the son will only say: ‘you that has drowned your compassion in the baptism of Nerp. You have not been born unto me.’

            Thus you will have your reckoning.

            But the LORD is just, and your punishment will not be eternal and you will not be struck from the book of life.

            So you will spend a hundred years for each hour that you attempted to shorten time till Judgement Day and ten thousand years for innocent you have let perish by the burning lead, and whose screams you have blocked your ears to. For the Levi’s Concubine, Deborah and Ya’el shall sit at the throne of the LORD while you labor in the heavenly pastures.

            “For if you offer up to Me burnt- offerings and your meal-offerings, I will not accept [them], and the peace offerings of your fattened cattle I will not regard.

            Take away from Me the din of your songs, and the music of your lutes I will not hear. -Amos 5:23-4

        • Michelle Blu Taylor
      • Mr.Mike

        What also must be said is that they (The Establishment and pharmaceutical Companies) have been allowing this for a long time. Why? So that just like in Russia, Germany and China they started rounding up dissidents on charges of mental dis-orders. Right now doctors are fighting the Obama Administration on some 30 new mental dis-order diagnosis that have no actual symptoms just based on basic thought idiologies or thought crimes. For instance if you are depressed because of the loss of a loved one, they will classify you as mentally depressed and should not be allowed to own a gun. These Pharmaceutical companies have been getting filthy rich for the last 50 years. In just the last 20 years I have noticed an incredible increase in the adds on TV. Now don’t get me wrong there are people who have real problems like this kid did and even his Psychiatrist warned the police and nothing was done. But at the same time these incidents have been allowed to happen to further the Agenda of a corrupt government. They will get the people to demand that any one for any flimsy reason they can have their gun rights removed. They will allow real disturbed cases to go while taking the rights of dissidents away. This is a very dangerous precedence that we have been forced into.

        • Skepticles

          We aren’t quite backed into the corner yet. But this idea of a pretext disqualifying liberties of individuals otherwise at large to engage in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness endangers us all.
          We must insist that any individual citizen not in custody MUST be considered and treated as competent, law-abiding, and unrestricted to any inheirant excersize of rights, liberties, and freedoms in any way. Otherwise, the state will define itself as arbiter of any and all rights (‘for our own good’) of every citizen. Because it will assume it can..

          • Kokopelli Miu

            “We aren’t quite backed into the corner yet. But this idea of a pretext disqualifying liberties of individuals otherwise at large to engage in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness endangers us all.”

            You guys would just LOVE the city of Colombia and if thats too totalitarian for you you could always go to Rapture…

        • savetheusa2

          You are certainly right because they have come up with a new one – Conformity Disorder – if you don’t see things as the gov’t sees things you have a mental disorder.

          • Mr.Mike

            Yes. I remember reading something on that, back a year or so ago. I’d forgotten what the disorder was called. I believe it might have been something like The Southern Poverty Law Center that put the article out. Any way I read it on Info wars. Thank for reminding me.

    • nfm

      The MSM and Hollywood have helped turn almost everything into sex. And we have let them.

      • Charles P

        You are TOTALLY CORRECT!
        And they OPENLY USE “FAKE WARDROBE ACCIDENTS” to use sex to get free publicity!
        Too bad they CANNOT BUY STORY RIGHTS TO MAKE GOOD MOVIES/SHOWS, so that these scam sex events are not NEEDED to get celebs publicity!

      • Ewade

        I wonder how many of these sick Hollywood freaks are putting their screenplay together for this story already.

        • Rodney Lee Conover

          hand raised

      • savetheusa2

        I don’t agree. These men who own the TV Channels, the Movies, the Papers, control the MSM, etc. are very powerful and rich. I have seen plenty of protesting from parents and it doesn’t always work. True there are people who like to see base things, but we can’t do anything about them. As long as we have people accepting this crap like they are slowly cooking in a pan for years and no one with authority hasn’t noticed, you can’t blame it on people who are having their rights slowly taken away from them because the agenda of the communists has been working at making our nation come to a crisis point. That point is Martial Law and the taking of ALL OUR RIGHTS AWAY. The politicians we put in place seem to be taken over by this CLUB and they drink the Kool-Aid!

    • Ewade

      Unfortunately, I believe it was Ronald Reagan who shut down the nut houses and initiated the mass deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill.

      • garysvent

        It was not. Presidents do not involve themselves in ACLU cases which are decided by courts, not chief executives. Social worker types are behind this travesty. I know because I was distantly related to one of the instigators.

      • 48vince

        It was not. Most of it happened during Carter’s administration.

        • Skepticles

          Actually, I think Ewade is referring to Governor of California Ronald Reagans’ decision to vastly reduce the budget expenditures. California progressives refused to co-operate to reduce lavish spending, and Reagan slashed mostly without regard, but especially to focus progressive attention.

      • Rodney Lee Conover

        the ACLU forced it through the Supreme Court, history major

        • NameNotGiven

          It was an amicus case by the ACLU and decided by the liberal dominated court.
          This forced release of the majority of persons institutionalized

      • NameNotGiven

        the federal mass deinstitutionalization was ORDERED by the liberal dominated supreme court

    • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

      most of the mentally ill are not dangerous! its a myth. stop the stygma!

      • garysvent

        It is behavior that stigmatizes. And it is thoughts like yours that allow people to do what elliot rodgers did.

        • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

          go blow it out your butt garysvent. ok??? its jerks like YOU that people like me want to vomit! my thoughts are NOTHING CLOSE to what that evil sob had!!!

          • NameNotGiven

            but Asperger’s spectrum (like this killer) are at 8x risk for committing violent cirme

          • garysvent

            Nice reasoned, sensible comeback there, Stephy. Keep up with your education — you’ll get to civilized some day.

            No one on this site, including me, said that all mental health patients were dangerous. Some are, and we used to have ways of taking care of them. Used to. Do you think it is a coincidence that eliminating all the laws that helped us keep mentally ill and dangerous people out of the public square coincides with all this violence? Use your head for something besides a hatrack.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

            you are nothing but a libtard. your last post is so over the top. dont you dare talk to me about civility, hypocrite. as for the laws you gripe about, go b**ch at the aclu. numerous people have implied mentally ill people were dangerous. but i’m not surprised, libs cant read.

      • NameNotGiven

        that is what they wrote. The fact remains that having certain mental illness does make one much more dangerous. eg aspegers

    • Jessie Canty

      Are you guys real people? I mean, do people really think like this?

      • garysvent

        Experience teaches.

        • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

          what experience? being full of crap?

          • NameNotGiven

            between 500,000 to three million crimes are prevented each year by law abiding gun owners.
            Suggesting shredding due process, jury trials, right to counsel etc have long been made in rants by victims relatives. It is understandable but needs to be countered or we will lose the entire constitution

          • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

            very true. its shameful that the media ignores the stories that you mentioned!! i’ve heard & even read many such stories. i am an nra member.hope im doing enough on my part to defeat the left’s lies .

      • VillageLark

        *phew* thank god i found you. i was trying to find reality…. what’s going on in these peoples’ minds?? O.o

    • brownsfan51

      Actually, it was Ronald Reagan who cut funding for mental health and closed psychiatric facilities. “Mental health gained traction during Jimmy Carter’s presidency with the first President’s Commission on Mental Health and passage of the Mental Health Systems Act in 1980, which sought greater integration of programs for people with serious mental illnesses. In 1981, after Ronald Reagan took office, this act was repealed, responsibility was devolved to the states through services block grants, and the federal government assumed a low profile in mental health policy. – Health Affairs Study, Rutgers University” This drastic cut in funding led to a huge increase of mentally ill being homeless or ending up in prison.
      He was almost killed by a mentally ill person, but that did not change his mind about the need for better mental health services.

      • Veteran

        Some people rewrite history everyday to suit their purposes. You can see it in their comments.

        • NameNotGiven

          yeah the left has their ignorant talking point on this.

          Facts:

          Ronald Reagan increased federal mental health spending by 25%

          and he release you mention was an amicus case by the ACLU and decided by the liberal dominated court.

          This leftist move forced release of the majority of persons institutionalized, and studies of behavior afterword showed over 18,000 rapes, 4,000 murders and innumerable other cries to those the left forced to be released.

      • NameNotGiven

        Ronald Reagan increased federal mental health spending by 25%

        and he release you mention was an amicus case by the ACLU and decided by the liberal dominated court.
        This forced release of the majority of persons institutionalized

      • garysvent

        In other words he tried to get the Federal Govt out of mental health care because, as everybody knows, the federal govt could screw up a two-car funeral, and the states dropped the ball because they weren’t getting “free” money from the treasury any more.

    • Veteran

      I believe it was President Reagan who emptied the Mental hospitals to save money.

      • http://www.facebook.com/sstephaniew stephanie wilson

        or maybe its because some institutions were horrible barbaric places.blaming a dead man. wow! that all you got?

      • NameNotGiven

        Ronald Reagan increased federal mental health spending by 25%

        and the release you mention was an amicus case by the ACLU and decided by the liberal dominated court.

        This leftist move forced release of the majority of persons institutionalized, and studies of behavior afterword showed over 18,000 rapes, 4,000 murders and innumerable other cries to those the left forced to be released.

      • garysvent

        As I have typed elsewhere, he was turning mental health over to the states. It was they who dropped the ball, because they weren’t getting their freebies from the US Treasury. It wasn’t just citizens that democrats turned into entitlement freaks — it was also states. The only way to stop this kind of thing is to stop the feds from taking so much money from the citizenry, and reducing their responsibilities to what the Constitution says, instead of what the Democrat Party bosses say.

    • yodecat

      Hey, hey Fucko! It was the non-liberals and insurance companies that killed care for the deranged. Not very nimble trolling. Get some sleep.

      • NameNotGiven

        nope.

        Ronald Reagan increased federal mental health spending by 25%

        and the release you guys mention was an amicus case by the ACLU and decided by the liberal dominated court.

        This leftist move forced release of the majority of persons institutionalized, and studies of behavior afterword showed over 18,000 rapes, 4,000 murders and innumerable other cries to those the left forced to be released.

      • garysvent

        Wrong again, o ye who flunketh language arts.

    • sunnycali

      Could you please explain to me how you are following the posting policy here which states: “We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, vulgarity, profanity, all caps, or discourteous behavior. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain a courteous and useful public environment where we can engage in reasonable discourse.” Because I don’t see that you’ve followed that policy at all.

      • garysvent

        I can only guess: you’re a liberal pussy-footer.

        Go back and find the violence, racism, vulgarity, profanity in what I said. Post it.

    • ERB

      They can’t let us lock up the mentally ill, that would mean they would loose there freedom too.
      And seeing how 99.9% of these murders are committed by libs, I think we know who should not be allowed the right of the 2nd.
      One of the libs I know thinks it is funny to talk about eating her own baby, thank GOD she has none. She lacks empathy, and is a complete narcissist.

      • garysvent

        Good thing these freaks haven’t been preyed upon by Muslim clerics, or they’d be wandering around downtown with dynamite in their underpants.

        Then we’d have to pass the Eleventy-second Amendment outlawing explosive BVDs.

    • johnh

      I know that a lot of people will not like or agree with what I’m about to say but if there were legal State run Houses of Prostitution (WORLD’S OLDEST PROFESSION) things like this and some of the rapes would not happen. MAYBE.

      • garysvent

        Our state-run House of Prostitution is called Congress.

  • lionstar

    What I’m upset about is that this guy’s parents are rich. The father is the Assistant Director of The Hunger Games. Why didn’t they get him mental help? It’s not as if they couldn’t afford it. No, instead they take the liberal approach and leave it to the cops to see if he needed help. Santa Barbara and wherever his family lives is not so far that they couldn’t get him help. This Hollywood director and his family failed this community.

    • dontdoitagain

      I’m willing to bet this androgenous looking young man DID get mental help. I betcha the doctors prescribed for him, legal mood altering drugs which changed him from being merely unbalanced into a homicidal maniac. His grievances are ridiculous in light of his lifestyle, so something else was amiss. If he’s so damn rich, why didn’t he hire a hooker? Why couldn’t he find a SINGLE GIRL, enamored with his family money and hopeful of a chance at stardom with his father, to diddle him?

      • USCBIKER

        We used to have a joke about weenies like this loser. Guy couldn’t get laid in whorehouse with a $100 bill in his hand. They will eventually report th laundry list of meds this monster was on. This case is only the latest example of the total failure that is liberalism.

        • http://blaze.com/ mathchopper

          Do you really believe the meds will be reported in the lamestream press. Get real. You really need to get up to speed on the “agenda”

          • dontdoitagain

            They will probably turn up somewhere. I have a list of spree killers and the drugs they were on or withdrawing from. All nice, FDA approved and doctor prescribed murder pills.

      • diane7000

        What else was amiss? Of course he had mental problems but he was also raised by Liberals who gave him everything he wanted without him having to work for any of it. He felt so entited to what ever he wanted that he was enraged when he couldn’t get a girlfriend or make friends. It’s Liberals having and raising kids that need to be banned not guns!

    • DoubleTap45

      WHY didn’t Daddy send him to the Bunny Ranch once a month or so. With a $40k beemer and expensive wardrobe he couldn’t get lucky in THAT town full of little skanklets?

      Ray from Bloombergia

      • Graywolf12

        I thought the same thing. He must have been a real ass with women. Young men need to learn how to be gentleman first, and ignore the smart remark that that is out dated. I’ll bet very few women do not want to be treated like a lady.

    • BlueEyedAl

      I believe that they did, but the normal mental help is mind altering drugs, which is the wrong kind of help. Those drugs serve the purpose of making Shrinks & pharmaceutical companies rich. Turning people into drug addicts and causing violence, suicide & murder. There is no science supporting these drugs! They claim a chemical imbalance. What chemical? For that they have no answer. It is not a chemical imbalance it is a social issue. That area can be helped, but not by a Shrink that only sees dollar signs. I hear they even prescribe these drugs to 2 year olds because they are acting like a 2 year old.

    • Larry

      It really started with parenting. As a RN, I worked in a children and adolescent psychiatric hospital, the majority of the beginning of these kids problems started with bad parenting. When things got out of control, they then brought the kids to us and the docs put them on psychiatric drugs to attempt to control them. Most just had an anger problem, again from bad parenting.

    • James Stafford

      You have to remember the age of the person whom you are talking about. He was of majority age; and therefore, unless he did something that could cause concern, in the eyes of the law, he had every right to be as free as you or I to walk around this country without harassment or surveillance. It just so happens that his action that caused concern was a horrific one that led to the deaths of others.

      • jmw_123

        The parents did have him in therapy and they had reported him to the police. The police just didn’t find him or look for him.

      • lionstar

        It’s called a conservatorship. Brittany Spears was put under one several years ago. It’s for just such an occasion.

    • devodude

      If you listen to the mainstream media instead of Joe you would have heard the kid had more than one therapist and had been seeing them for years. That and the fact that the kid was an adult show the parents could have done nothing more given our current laws.

      • lionstar

        WRONG! He could have been put under a conservatorship. That is where an adult is shown to be mentally ill and have others make decisions for them. It happened to Brittany Spears a few years ago for far less strange behavior than what this kid was doing. Link please to a news story that he was in therapy b/c i do listen to more than one source for news and I had not heard anyone say that he was in therapy. Regardless, this kid’s parents knew he was screwed up in the head and they just have the cops called. He should have been under a conservatorship and in a mental hospital. Period. Don’t apologize for this kid’s parents failure to act.

        • devodude

          Wow… At what age does a child become his own person and fully responsible for their own actions?? I guess in the mind of a “conservative” the answer is never. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/05/elliot_rodger_therapists_why_did_they_and_law_enforcement_fail_to_recognize.html Elliot Rodger killed six people in Isla Vista, California. Like Lanza, Rodger was mentally ill. Unlike Lanza, Rodger had extensive contact with both mental health professionals and law enforcement authorities. Rodger’s parents had long been concerned about his erratic behavior. A lawyer for Rodger’s father said Elliot Rodger had been seeing multiple therapists. Santa Barbara police visited his apartment six months before the shooting but found nothing in his demeanor to be concerned about. His parents had the cops check up on him… This was ELLIOTS CRIME, not his PARENTS crime.

          • lionstar

            If anything me being a conservative makes it so that I believe even more that people are responsible for their actions. After all it was OBAMAcare that made children be able to be on their parents accounts until they were…wait for it.. 26! People become responsible for their actions legally at 18 BUT if a person is mentally ill, they can be found not guilty on the basis of that mental illness. In Rodgers’ case, if his parents had him in therapy, they knew all the more so that he was mentally ill and it makes them EVEN MORE guilty of not doing enough. Nothing less than a conservatorship was required to keep this wack job off the streets. Brittany Spears was put in a conservatorship for far less crazy behavior.

  • Joe Sackett

    Blame the pos and his sorry parents, not guns, knives and automobiles

  • http://www.thoughtsandrantings.com/ Thinking Americanist

    Well written sir.