Joe for America

Noah’s Ark Has Been Found. Why Are They Keeping Us In The Dark?

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I’m often amazed at our lack of knowledge about history. Ordinary people are hungry for this information, yet the organizations responsible to disseminate these facts seem to have an agenda to keep us in the dark. This is especially true when it comes to our ancient human history.

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I won’t hold you in suspense with this article: The Ark of Noah has been found. It’s real. I’ll describe the evidence in some detail and end with the historical and religious implications.

How It Was Discovered

In 1959, Turkish army captain Llhan Durupinar discovered an unusual shape while examining aerial photographs of his country. The smooth shape, larger than a football field, stood out from the rough and rocky terrain at an altitude of 6,300 feet near the Turkish border with Iran.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

Capt. Durupinar was familiar with the biblical accounts of the Ark and its association with Mount Ararat in Turkey, but he was reluctant to jump to any conclusions. The region was very remote, yet it was inhabited with small villages. No previous reports of an object this odd had been made before. So he forwarded the photographic negative to a famous aerial photography expert named Dr. Brandenburger, at Ohio State University.

Brandenburger was responsible for discovering the Cuban missile bases during the Kennedy era from reconnaissance photos, and after carefully studying the photo, he concluded: “I have no doubt at all, that this object is a ship. In my entire career, I have never seen an object like this on a stereo photo.”

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

In 1960 the picture [above] was published in LIFE magazine under the heading of Noahs Ark? That same year a group of Americans accompanied Capt. Durupinar to the site for a day and a half. They were expecting to find artifacts on the surface or something that would be unquestionably related to a ship of some kind. They did some digging in the area but found nothing conclusive and announced to the anxiously waiting world that it appeared to be a natural formation.

Most of the global media turned away from the find and it became a non-story.

In 1977 Ron Wyatt visited the site. Obtaining official permission, Ron and others conducted more thorough research over a period of several years. They used metal detection surveys, subsurface radar scans, and chemical analysis — real science — and their findings were startling. The evidence was undeniable. This was the Ark of Noah.

The Visual Evidence

The first part of the survey was to examine the object and take its measurements. The shape looked like hull of a ship. One end was pointed as you would expect from bow [below: D] and the opposite end was blunt like a stern. The distance from bow to stern was 515 feet, or exactly 300 Egyptian cubits. The average width was 50 cubits. These were the exact measurements mentioned in the Bible.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

On the starboard side (right) near the stern there were four vertical bulges protruding from the mud [B], at regular intervals, that were determined to be the “ribs” of the hull [see below]. Opposite to these, on the port side, a single rib [A] protrudes from the mud. You can see its curved shape very clearly. Surrounding it are more ribs, still largely buried in the mud, but visible upon close examination.

Remember that this object, if it is the Ark, is extremely old. The wood has been petrified. Organic matter has been replaced by minerals from the earth. Only the shapes and traces of the original wood remain. Perhaps this is why the expedition in 1960 was disappointed. They anticipated finding and retrieving chucks of wood, long since eroded.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

From the position of the object in the middle of an obvious mud flow, it is obvious that the object slid down more than a mile from its original location. Geologists believe it was originally over 1000 feet higher in the mountain and encased in a shell of hardened mud. They think that an earthquake in 1948 cracked the mud shell and revealed the structure. This is confirmed by stories from the surrounding villagers who tell of its “sudden appearance” around that time.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

Biblical accounts of the Ark describe it as having as many as six levels. The assumed shape of the Ark seems consistent with the bulge [C] in the middle of the object. In fact, as we will soon learn, radar scans of the structure suggest that this bulge is the collapsed debris of these levels.

Although most people think of the Ark as being rectangular, that only applies to the top decks. The sleek shape of the hull is necessary to enable the huge ship to remain stable in the water and survive tremendous waves.

Ground Penetrating Radar

The human eye needs to see reflected light to recognize an object. To visualize what remains below the earth, scientists use microwaves which can penetrate the ground and bounce back when they hit something solid. This technique is commonly used to locate oil and other minerals. Called Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR), the apparatus us made from an antenna that transmits, then listens to receive the “echo” and prints the result on a piece of paper. The delay and strength of this echo tell the geologists how solid and at what depth the objects are under the earth.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

The team of geologists didn’t scan the entire object. Instead, they marked out lines that crossed the object with yellow tape. Then they dragged the antenna (about the size of a lawnmower) over the lines and watched the output on the paper recorder. When they got a strong “hit” — meaning there was something solid underneath — they would record the position on the tape [above]. Later, when they made a map of the object, the tape and the location of the “hits” they realized that there was indeed a structure underneath the mud.

“This data does not represent natural geology. These are man made structures. These reflections are appearing too periodic… too periodic to be random in that type of natural pace.” - Ron Wyatt of SIR Imaging team

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

The radar cans revealed this structure [above] under the mud. The symmetry and logical placement of these objects shows that this is unmistakably a man made structure, most likely the Ark of Noah.

Artifacts Retrieved From The Ark

Using the GPR, Ron Wyatt discovered an open cavity on the starboard side. He used an improvised drill to make core sample inside this cavity and retrieved several very interesting objects. Below you can see the artifacts which were sent for laboratory analysis. On the left is the bore hole [see below], followed by what turned out to be petrified animal dung, then a petrified antler and lastly a piece of cat hair.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

Perhaps the most significant find from the Ark itself is a piece of petrified wood. When this was first found it appeared to be a large beam. But upon closer examination it is actually three pieces of plank that have been laminated together with some kind of organic glue! This is the same technology used in modern plywood. Lamination makes the total strength of the wood much greater than the combined strength of the pieces. This suggests a knowledge of construction far beyond anything we knew existed in the ancient world.

noahs ark found
Tests by Galbraith Labs in Knoxville, Tennessee, showed the sample to contain over 0.7% organic carbon, consistent with fossilized wood. The specimen was once living matter. Photo:http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

Examination reveals the glue oozed from the layers. The outside of the wood appears to have been coated with bitumen.

Even more surprising were laboratory analyses which not only revealed that the petrified wood contained carbon (proving it was once wood) but there were iron nails [above right] embedded in the wood!

We like to imagine that humanity evolved in a neat sequence of eras, each named after the technology that was discovered. We have the Stone Age (where man developed arrows and stone tools), the Bronze Age (where metals were combined and heated to make tools and household items) and lastly the Iron Age (where iron and steel objects were made by heating iron ore and adding other material — like charcoal — to strengthen it). The Iron Age is usually placed at 1200-1000 BC, yet we have iron nails being used in this extremely old construction

But Wait… There’s More!

The most surprising find was discovered with sensitive metal detectors. The team located several strong “hits” that, when dug up, revealed large disc shaped rivets. From simple observation of the metal it was possible to see where the rivet had been hammered after being inserted through a hole [below].

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

If rivets being used in ancient construction doesn’t impress you, this surely will.

An analysis of the metal used to make the rivets revealed that they were a combination of iron (8.38%), aluminum (8.35%) and titanium (1.59%). Remember these trace metals have survived petrification and so do not indicate the exact content in the original material. (see Report from Galbraith Labs)

We know the aluminum was incorporated in the metallic mixture because it does not exist in metallic form in nature. This implies an extremely advanced knowledge of metallurgy and engineering. Characteristics of an iron-aluminum alloy have been investigated in The Russian Chemical Bulletin (2005) and reveal that this alloy forms a thin film of aluminum oxide which protects the material from rust and corrosion. The addition of titanium would provide added strength. This seems to have worked. The rivets have survived from antiquity!

The Surrounding Areas

Several miles from the location of the Ark, huge stones were discovered, some standing upright while others lying on the ground. These stones, weighing many tons, have holes carved in them. Scientists have determined that they were anchors and the holes would have been their attachment to a ship with hemp rope.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

Often these stones will have crosses carved in them, from centuries ago when pilgrims made the journey to visit the Ark. Yes, the Ark was well known in the Middle Ages and even before. And its location was recorded in many historical documents.

“And the Ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.” – Genesis 8:4-5

The Gilgamesh Epic (650 BC) gives Mt. Nisir as the landing place of the Ark. The local name for the town where the Ark was found is Nasar.

The annals of Ashurnasurpal II of Assyria (833-859 BC) places it south of the Zab river (correct).

Theophilus of Antioch (115-185 AD) said the Ark could be seen in his day in the Arabian mountains. Later Church Fathers also mention the Ark as late as the mid 7th century.

In the 13th century, Willam, a traveler, stated for the first time that Mt. Masis was the Ark location (present-day Mt. Ararat).

Ptolemy’s Geographia (1548) mentions the mountains of Armenia as the place of landing. So does the traveler Nicolas de Nicolay (1558).

Pilgrims to the site would gather bits and pieces of the petrified wood which would be used as charms to ward off evil. When they encountered the anchors, they had no doubt about their association with the Ark. They often carved one big cross to represent Noah and smaller crosses representing his family.

noahs ark found
Photo: http://www.viewzone.com/noahx.html

The huge anchors would have been suspended from the keel of the ship. This was a common practice among ancient mariners to stabilize a heavy ship and ensure that the bow is always facing the on-coming waves. A “top heavy” ship, such as the Ark, could easily be capsized by a wave approaching from the side. This is yet further proof that Noah’s Ark was a reality and that it has indeed been found in Turkey.

Source / By Dan Eden

Mark Martineau
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  • white531

    Excellent article. Thank you for posting.

    • http://underthegunreview.net/ Jacob Tender

      Unfortunately, Noah’s Ark has NOT been found and this article is incorrect. http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

      • D>>>>>>>>>

        SNOPES is a FRAUD of a company run and own by the LIBERAL BIGGOT… You are an idiot spewing BS…

        • Rhys

          Snopes may have left a great deal of their credibility in the dust over the past few years, but that is no reason to be so mean, calling folks ‘idiot’. It’s just unseemly

          • Nick Scheessele

            Truth hurts doesn’t it?

          • IndianCowboy

            Hey, Nick, don’t forget: “Whatever is true for you, is true,” as you go about constructing your own reality, within the culture in which you live. LOL.

          • Lynda

            Believing anything put out by snopes is what is “unseemly!” UNSEEMLY! LOL

          • RLM357

            The Huusband Wife team from PA. are officials in the PA DNC. They are Liberal Pro-Democrat Spin masters.

          • Steve Manno

            David Mikkelson was a registered Republican before starting snopes, he changed to independent afterward. His wife is canadian, with no affiliation, or voting status. That’s a fact. Do with it what you will.

          • skeeter56

            After they said that Obamas Birth Certificate was real…All their credibility was out the window

          • Elizabeth

            and how they always favor him in there reports of anything negative

          • Justin Taylor

            You can bet the house that there is probably a real live physical document in Hawaii that has Obama’s name on it. It is in fact a real document. You can doubt its authenticity (as I do), but probably not its ‘realness’. Snopes is probably correct when assessing the document is real, but I haven’t read what they wrote. Again, it’s the AUTHENTICITY of the document that should be brought into question.

          • chamuiel

            tell justin taylor that.

        • http://underthegunreview.net/ Jacob Tender

          You don’t use your real name on the Internet and your profile picture is a figure of a currently controversial topic. Sit down.

          • Robert Reeves

            Controversial only to non-believers. The man was asked a question. He answered it truthfully. If you don’t want to hear the answer, don’t ask the question.

          • Kate

            oh we gon’ have dis argument here huh? ohhhh boy dont u get me started eh

          • chamuiel

            kate, I am not sure anything, or anyone could get you “started.”

          • Francine

            You need to sit down! Me thinks you bark too loud. Why do you call someone else mean when that is exactly what you are being! If they don’t agree you get rude!

          • Kate

            i am confuse

          • chamuiel

            didn’t take much.

          • A Willful Boy

            “You don’t use your real name on the Internet and your profile picture is a figure of a currently controversial topic. Sit down.” – Jacob Tender

            https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

            Can’t attack the his words, so you attack his character, huh? The true hallmark of someone without anything to add to the debate. It must be fun to have no responsibilities or prospects, so that you may publicly befool yourself.

            As for me, I got tired of the ever-tolerant liberals harassing my family due to my political beliefs. Once progressive bullying is stopped once and for all, I’ll be happy to reveal my identity.

          • Iron Tub

            Great link Willful !!! Thank You!!

          • A Willful Boy

            You’re welcome. The site authors miss a few good ones, and insert their political bias into the explanation of fallacies, but sometimes you have to take what you can get.

            The sad part is that if Jacob had bothered to follow my link, he could have learned about logic and accused me of the ‘fallacy fallacy’. His claim is wrong, but not because it was poorly argued by him. Unfortunately, he has no interest in seeking truth or self-improvement.

          • Tuff Guy

            Two words for Jacob. Young, stupid. Two more I bet he knows. Hope and change.

          • hargis

            Your name isn’t Jacob. So shut up, and crawl back in your hole.

          • Byrum Blobshittle

            I don’t use MY real name and I have a picture of Obozo getting ready to masturbate (what he always does right after burning the Constitution that he was HIRED TO PROTECT!). My reasoning is this… if Obozo’s Mooselick Booboohood retards saw my REAL face, I would have to spend all my time killing the punk ass wannabe ragheads they send to behead me for being a TRUE AMERICAN PATRIOT… killing them in self-defense, of course. Not EVERYONE is stupid enough to put their real face out there where Satan’s Minions (spelled M*U*S*L*I*M*S) can lock in on them. Enjoy your eternity in Hell that you will deserve for following Satan’s Spawn Osama Obama!

          • ligersaurus

            That’s a great profile picture. Where can I get a full size copy to use as desktop wallpaper?

          • Sane Guy

            Willful Boy, this is who you are defending.. Pathetic

          • Mary Balderson

            WOW! Judgemental much ?

        • Kate

          hi i’m new wats the definition of a bigot

          • Justin Taylor

            big·ot [big-uht] Show IPA

            noun
            a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

          • Kate

            Yeah see I kinda feel like that and the definition of liberal can’t really go hand in hand but whatever it’s cooool

          • A Willful Boy

            Bwahahaha. So, this is liberals tolerating other beliefs, huh? Wow, quite the delusion you’ve got yourself into there. Hopefully not so deep that this falls on entirely deaf ears…

          • Iron Tub

            And when someone replies with “whatever” to a discussion or argument it pretty much means they no longer have anything constructive to add to the conversation

          • A Willful Boy

            Exactly. Merely an attempt to bog down the forum with nonsense, making it unusable for respectful debaters on both sides.

          • Kate

            Or it means they enjoy using sarcasm.

          • chamuiel

            do you even understand sarcasm?

          • Iron Tub

            possible but not very probable

          • Elizabeth

            not only that it is rude

          • Kate

            Well, while we’re handing out definitions,

            lib·er·al
            ˈlib(ə)rəl/
            adjective

            1.open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
            “they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people”

            2.(of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person’s general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.

            noun

            1.a person of liberal views.

          • A Willful Boy

            Perhaps this was intended for Justin Taylor, who initially handed out a definition for you. In any case:

            Cultural imperialism – This pattern presents the way in which powerful cultures present their culture as the most acceptable lifestyle, and condemn the cultural practices of others

            Semantic manipulation – When these definitions prevent governments or corporations from their goals, they will sidestep the problem by redefining/rephrasing words or using straw man tactics to manipulate the public into accepting something they otherwise would not accept.

            I would conclude, but apparently we’re letting definitions do the talking for us.

          • chamuiel

            what liberal dictionary did you dig that out of?

            open to new behavior, hmmm such as

            gay sex, bestiallty, multiple wives,transgender..

            well, kate you have to admit those are not traditional values.

            So, that is what a liberal is.

          • Justin Taylor

            “new” behavior. Because apparently many of these items didn’t exist until very recent times….even though they’re in books reported to be over 5000 years old…..I guess they’re new compared to dinosaurs..maybe.

          • Tuff Guy

            Wasn’t it Kate’s definition?

          • Elizabeth

            liberal=open to sin

          • Mary Balderson

            Better than blinded by mythology….j/s

          • ladyruth54

            Liberal = so open minded that their brains fell out.

          • chamuiel

            why can’t they?

          • Rickey brown

            Well to normal folks its about race. The fact we choose who we sleep with it isn’t even a word used correctly when speaking of homos. Bigot was used against racial terms racist. Homo people have a choice and know they’re wrong that’s why they’re so offended. They’re going to hell if they don’t repent and relieve that iniquity from their life times short repent or perish its that simple mystery Babylon is America as in days of Noah and lot. We’re marked for destruction next.

          • Mary Balderson

            Move beyond the Dark Ages and lose the homophobia please (it makes you look very ignorant)

        • Mary Balderson

          You’re seriously going to accuse someone else of bigotry with that moron as your profile pic ? Spare me the hipocrisy please…

          • ligersaurus

            That “moron” is smarter and more of a real man than the goofball in the WH. “Hipocrisy” – no dictionary results.

        • Elizabeth

          yes I did discover that they are a fraud, but at the bottom of that link about jesus is another site that might enlighten some people that insist God and Jesus are myths, researched fully by scientists have a look )

      • Wes Edwards

        There are lots of credentialed people who have disputed Ron Wyatt’s research over this find since he did most of the research we now have today concerning this site back in the late 70′s, but 99.9% of them have never visited the site themselves. Most detractors are competing archaeologists or have a vested interest in distancing themselves from the faux-scandal of the site and the vast majority of those scrutinizing his work simply do so b/c since they can’t duplicate his findings they have opted to label his results as inconclusive. They ignore the mountains (no pun intended) of evidence beyond the initial site, the testimonies of eye witnesses and the surprising glut of additional extra-biblical historical evidences found in secular and pagan documents concerning that very site. I realize that it’s very easy albeit naïve to search one site dedicated to debunking things and trust that they speak the truth in all matters. It’s quite another to actually do some research yourself and critically analyze what’s being presented to you. I would encourage you to do more research yourself before simply disregarding something in its entirety just b/c an arguably biased site like Snopes.com said so.

        • Kate

          biased? biased towards SCIENCE, YEAAAAH SCIENCE

          • rjl57 .

            Kate, it a proven fact science does not have all the answers. Ex. the big bang theory. Even Stephen Hawking is a baffoon here. Why? B/C it’s a proven fact you can NOT… NOT get some thing from nothing.
            Carbon Dating- unreliable. A top hat was lost in a mine cave in. Some years later it was dug up and dated at 3,000 years old. A hard hat was lost and dug up and it was dated at 5,000 years old.
            So even though many of us would love to paint life as black and white. It truely is not.

          • pandainc

            ‘you can NOT… NOT get some thing from nothing,’ YOU are correct. God, however, is not a ‘you’.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Funny, hydrogen and helium gas under heat and pressure becomes metals, so gold is star stuff, so are we, so is iron and lead, platinum etc.

          • Scott Alexander

            how could you possibly know what God is or isn’t?

          • pandainc

            OK. I’ll play along a bit. Because he describes himself and his attributes fairly well in a book called the Holy Bible. So how could you possibly NOT know?

          • Justin Taylor

            1. Big Bang was a bit more than nothing. If you knew enough to actually study the Big Bang theory, you’d understand that. But you’re ignorant, so I guess it’s not your fault you can’t understand something that SH can.

            2. Carbon Dating – what you just described are myths that never happened. Never. They are completely false. Besides, it’s absolutely impossible.

          • throwedoff

            Justin, what is the accuracy range of carbon dating? +/- 5000 years

            at best after all you’re dealing with decaying isotopes. Where did all the matter that exploded out into the universe (multiverses?) originate from? Science hasn’t answered that question yet can you? Maybe the liberal progressive Democrats created it!

          • Justin Taylor

            You really don’t understand how C 14 dating works, do you? 1) It deals with organic materials. ORGANIC materials – like plant matter, or plant matter that’s been eaten. A top hat? Really? Yeah, you can’t C 14 date a top hat…or a hard hat… I mean seriously – you people ever heard of Google? Ever heard of actually checking your “facts” before you just press the “I believe” button? Wow.

            Matter is matter. It exists. There also exists anti-matter, which will really blow your mind as anti-matter can become matter and vice versa. I know, weird right? The origin of all matter….yeah, there’s no answer to that….so, whoa – since there’s no answer that can be provided by science, it must be that a magic man in the sky made all matter! Cuz that’s how we do things – anything that we can’t yet explain, we simply say “the magic man in the sky did it!”

            I’m embarrassed to have you idiots on my planet.

          • Heath Martin

            Ok i am all about a scientific debate hell or even a religious debate, but when it comes to insulting someone for his/her beliefs i can’t tolerate that. NO ONE has all the answers. I believe in a Creator. So does that mean i am idiot? No it doesn’t, i just believe in something bigger than ourselves. So i could criticize you for being a puppet by scientists who are feeding you a load of crap. I mean the only ones who would actually knew they were feeding you crap is the ones who is feeding it right. So how about you have a CIVIL discussion without demonizing someones views. Because frankly i think your an idiot justin. You just exude the idiotic qualities of some half baked millennial know it all. So i am gonna do me and i suggest you do you and let everyone else do them.

          • Sane Guy

            So you do believe that there is a an invisible magic man in the sky creating everything we can’t explain? Sounds pretty idiotic to me

          • chamuiel

            invisible magic man is your creation, not ours.

          • silverzone

            What you just posted is very simplistic and has nothing to do with describing God. “Invisible magic man”? Really?!

          • Heath Martin

            ok since you’re willing to bash others belief systems, please mr “sane” guy, tell us what you believe? Do you believe that we are here by mere chance, that a bunch of nothingness exploded to create an infinite galaxy that is ever expanding, or do you believe that we evolved from apes? I mean your family might have come from apes, but that doesn’t mean that mine did. So please, place your beliefs out here so others may rip them apart, since that is what this discussion has become. call me an idiot if you will, but you small minded atheist punks won’t discourage me.

          • Justin Taylor

            I can honestly say I don’t believe we evolved from apes. I believe we came from a common ancestor as the apes we see today, but no, I do not believe we evolved directly from apes. I also don’t believe ‘nothingness’ exploded. I believe ‘everythingness’ exploded…that’s kind of an integral part of the whole Big Bang theory.

            Btw, how come it’s ok for you to participate in name-calling and making fun of atheists, but it’s not ok for atheists to call you an idiot? Seems hypocritical.

          • Timberwolf

            Show an example of Christians name calling.

          • Darran Jamieson

            You yourself
            Heath Martin…
            chamuiel
            Felix 1999
            Fly Bob
            Just about anyone one whom has their posts answered, and the answer is not in agreement to what was written, then all the atheist comments, etc come out… yeah a real Christian attitude,

          • CharLiDog

            Dude, if you don’t accept the ToE, you’re an idiot. There is no doubt about what happened. We know it. Frankly, the discussion on evolution is as closed as the one on gravity.

          • Tuff Guy

            If you think the discussion on gravity is closed, you’re doing yourself a disservice.

          • CharLiDog

            Now everyone watch this. You are correct and I wrote down false information. I knew it when I wrote it, but since they play extremely loose with the facts I left it there. Now I see the use of it detracts from the main assertion. We know very little about gravity.
            I won’t edit the original post, but I would change my statement to be, “The discussion on evolution (in general) is as closed as the one on the general shape of the earth. ;-) I thank you for correcting me. I always seek a better truth than I have. And that’s the difference between me and theists; in general. lol.

          • Tuff Guy

            Now everyone. See how much better it is to be nice to one another…. :)

          • Elizabeth

            it has been explained, you can believe what you like, but then allow others without insult to believe what they choose

          • felix1999

            Insulting people gives you no credibility. It only shows you have no substance.

          • cyoder

            No, we do not believe in a “invisible magic man in the sky”. God is as much a man as a man is an amoeba.
            .

          • Timberwolf

            Science supports religion over atheism. We don’t believe that there was some weird accident and suddenly everything that exists just suddenly existed out of nothing with no reason. Life didn’t just suddenly say, “hey, I feel like existing today, so I’m gonna do it”.

          • Justin Taylor

            Science does not support religion over atheism. Wow. And actually that’s not at all how atheists believe life started on this planet either. The Big Bang was not a weird accident – based on the laws of physics, it’s happened before and will happen again, in time. Primordial life probably took a lot of time to develop – I mean we’re talking 3 billion years to go from nothing to a microscopic multi-cellular organism.

            If you think about it – Earth is an amazing planet (as far as we know, but probably not so amazing that it’s the only planet with life). We had extraordinary conditions – water, sunlight, CO2, ammonium hydroxide, and methane, and a much warmer surface of the earth than we have now. What this provides (and has been backed up by easily reproduceable lab experiments) is provide for chemical reactions that form amino acids – the basic building blocks of proteins, which are necessary for producing life as we know it. It’s nothing like “oh, hi, I’m life and thought I’d pop up today” – it took probably over a billion years for life as we know it to develop. A BILLION years.

          • Tuff Guy

            Not one single human or group of humans can possibly explain how we came into existence. Same can be said of why? I personally doubt any human will ever know (unless you consider and believe in Jesus as a human/ God). That is an individual choice. Anyone who would degrade another for not sharing that belief or criticize another for sharing that belief is simply condescending, foolish and narrow-minded. They are assuming they know the truth and any dissenters are beneath them.

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, we ‘possibly’ can, meaning, we can make educated hypotheses, based on what we know and what we observe. I simply educate – too many people have been fed absolutes and gross distortions of facts and then have made their judgements based on these gross distortions. Those judgements cause beliefs which cause people to overreact, or react as their religious convictions override their sense of reality. When that happens, they do things like create laws based on religion, or even promote mis-beliefs and misinformation. As a civilization – that keeps us lagging and stagnant, stalling the level of knowledge we should be attaining towards. So is there a purpose to my message – yep, you better believe it.

          • Tuff Guy

            Or react as their anti-religion convictions narrow their vision and override their vision and perception of reality.
            Mythology may have influenced our existence in many ways, good and bad but that behavior was mostly instinctive.
            Today our existence is stifled by greed.
            Greed is why we still use the internal combustion engine for our basic modern transportation.
            Greed is why we will NEVER have a cure for cancer or any other major disease where the ongoing research generates billions of dollars.
            Religion may be biased by faith but a lot of science and technology is blinded and STIFLED by greed. I’ll align myself with the faithful. At least they have a genuine interest in helping others. The greedy have a genuine interest in helping only themselves, keeping our civilization lagging and stagnant.

          • Justin Taylor

            I never said it was perfect. I did, however, say it was real. And I’ll take that over Narnia any day of the week.

          • 914

            Time is a man made concept. In other words you do have faith in your own understanding and belief system. Not so atheistic after all.

          • Justin Taylor

            God is also a man made concept….what a quinkiedink!

          • Jody Stark

            Sounds like you would know an idiot when you saw one. Idiot. LOL

          • Darran Jamieson

            You put a bloke down for stating facts, You argue with a belief not a fact, then have the gall to call someone else an idiot…. Watch a movie called Zeitgeist you fool, then tell me all about your God etc…. The bible was plagiarised from older religions and rewritten for its own purposes …I bet you didn`t know every single Christian believes in something stolen from another religion, and changed for its own purpose by the Roman Catholics….

          • Jody Stark

            Wow Darran, you must have been very busy, interviewing every single Christian, when did we speak? Idiot. LOL

          • Kcandi

            Don’t waste your time on him, Jody. I saw ‘Zeitgeist’. There’s two of these so called documentaries. They’d rather believe Atheist propaganda filmed in the 21st century.

          • 914

            What kind of an individual turns down a gift that costs nothing and gives eternal life? Got a mirror handy?

          • Sane Guy

            Yes, thank you

          • Flybob

            Yeah, well WE’RE ashamed to be amongst people like you who would do ANYTING and say ANYTHING to get people to lose their faith. Better hope you’re right mister, it gets pretty hot where you may be going. If you REALLY think there is even the SLIGHTEST chance that DNA from some asteroid landed where there JUST happened to be water (it didn’t even know it needed it) and JUST happened to get hit by the EXACT voltage in a lightning strike and after 10,000 years turned into an amoeba and then tad pole and then alligator and eventually became the only species on earth to plan you really are ignorant. Don’t bother to insult US, YOU’RE the insult, to humanity. Get a grip libtard, it’s not us that’s stupid. WE believe. I’m truly sorry you have no light in YOUR life but sure as there’s a hell you have NO right to tell any of us we’re wrong. Your proof makes a hell of a lot less sense than our beliefs.

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m not saying or doing “anyting” to get people to do anything other than think for themselves. And yes, I hear it has to be pretty hot to be cremated, but I’ll be dead, so, you know, yeah, I won’t care.

            The DNA hitchhiking on an asteroid theory LOL. Oh wow. You’ve been watching too many Frankenstein movies, buddy. What you just wrote made everybody who read it stupider. I mean, seriously, do you guys think before you type or just randomly throw orange gobberstoppers at the keyboard from across the room?

            How did life get created on planet Earth? Or rather, how did humans get to where we are today? Two somewhat similar topics, I suppose. The honest answer – nobody knows how life – even basic life – started on planet Earth. There are theories – for example, Genesis would be a theory, but I would be more inclined to believe in unicorns before Genesis – just about everything on Earth is in direct conflict with what Genesis says, but hey, let’s just conveniently ignore the age of the earth, geology, genetics, evolution, etc, because, by golly, anything other than “a magic man in the sky created everything” just doesn’t make sense…uh huh.

            I don’t buy the DNA on an asteroid theory. I think it would be difficult for proteins to survive entry through the atmosphere, not to mention the ride through empty space. Although, I consider it to have a higher probability than “a magic man created blah blah blah…”.

            No, I think primordial life developed somehow on Earth. Molecules – COH – are common in the environment, and have been since Earth formed. How long did it take for those molecules to somehow develop into a sophisticated replicating machine? Who knows? Bacteria are composed of DNA just as we are, as well as the same proportions of COH – but primitive life had to somehow develop into bacteria. That remains the mystery – how did that happen? I mean, we weren’t there as the Earth developed and it was a much different planet than we see today. Evidence of a methane atmosphere, lava flows, etc – the Earth at that time was probably in a state of constant change. And then there’s the development of the moon which very likely changed history as we know it – there’s actually a huge debate on whether life would’ve developed without the birth of the moon.

            So there you have it – nobody is saying an asteroid got hit by lightning and turned into an amoeba – that would be stupid. The real answer is: nobody knows for certain. Now, since nobody at this time knows the answer, that doesn’t then mean “you guys can’t figure it out, so a magic man must’ve created life”…no. The absence of proof does not then mean that we must have “some” answer so we make up a magic man in the sky – that’s the fairy tale answer, the answer very uneducated beings come up with because they look for ‘their’ answers because they don’t have the means or the tools to evaluate enough. Their observations: flat earth, sun moves across sky, strange twinkling lights in the night sky, a moon that always faces the earth in the same way but changes shape and goes black every now and then. They wanted answers the same as we want answers today – and to make sense of the chaos, they came up with their theories based on what they knew, which really wasn’t very much.

            In much the same way before people understood microbiology – people got sick so it must’ve been the work of witches, or some magical force. As we’ve come to understand – microorganisms make us sick, and advancements in medicine help us fight off those microorganisms.

            Seriously – magic is the LEAST likely possibility for anything that happens on planet Earth. Really. Oh, btw, I’m not liberal. Not even close. I probably hate Obama and government more than you do. Probably much more. I’m not a fan of government, probably equally not a fan of religion and the church government. (See what I did there?) I find it odd that more people don’t realize the obvious: whether it’s government or church – somebody is still telling you what to do and how to do it. The right wing hates government but loves church. The left wing hates church but loves government. And nobody finds that strange? The truth is: they are one and the same. And you’re only as free as either/or allows.

          • Flybob

            Well hell! You just explained the world and so long as we believe just like you then you won’t insult us! I’ll be dipped! Sure, maybe we’re a bunch of dumb hicks but most of us know there’s no such word as stupider. Yeah I make TYPOS but you used a word that doesn’t exist. So then maybe your rendition of the world and life is bogus…..huh! You see you have no light in your life and since YOU have no light you expect those who do not succumb to YOUR ideas to be stupider. You’re just one step away from wanting us all to perish! Let’s see, who else was like that……hitler, mao, stalin, obama and a host of other morons that think there s no place on earth for those who DO have light in their lives. Well when you cease to exist I imagine you’re expecting a black emptiness, we have HOPE! By the way, without religion and heaven and hell we might as well all just rape, rob and pillage. Religion IS the reason civilization is civilized. I mean what the hell….if there’s no ramifications for our actions, why be a good person? I really appreciate your efforts to shake my faith but you’re about 180″ off my mark. So you just go to your black hole and I’ll be sitting beside that “magic” man in light. Have a nice day libtard. Jesus teaches us to be tolerant, not defenseless.

          • Justin Taylor

            You really should take five minutes and have somebody else read that back to you. Yes, I used a made up word “stupider”…hint: it’s a metaphor. Nice, eh?

            No, I don’t want you all to perish – I want you all to open your eyes and see and think for yourselves. I’m not imagining anything when I cease to exist – I’ll be dead. No unicorns, no black emptiness…no nothing really – I’ll be dead. That’s kinda what death is.

            “Without religion and heaven and hell – we might as well rape, rob, and pillage”?! Oh my…you need serious help if you truly believe that. Having morals, ethics, and understanding you shouldn’t go around hurting people is not a product of religion, nor is it a product of the threat of heaven/hell. If you want, go over to some of the oldest ‘civilized’ areas in the world, where Abrahamic religions generally originated. This is where your christian theology started and has been around the longest. Take a look around and tell me how civilized you think it is then.

            If religion were capable of preventing rape, murder, stealing, and pillaging – why would we need laws or government anywhere? ***hint*** be careful with your answer, because this question is LOADED.

          • Darran Jamieson

            What one word – stupider- is all to prove your argument
            He is not the only one to use a word that doesn`t exist…
            Like you did too… many times….. GOD….Jesus
            Prove they exist /ed…
            To go on about words when Americans in the 1800`s had to bring out their own dictionary. Seems to me, You`ll re-write history or say anything so it fits into your beliefs,..

          • Flybob

            YOU LIBERAL POS!! You better hope I’m the wrong one. Prove they DON’T! It’s a hell of a lot easier or me to believe in something. You only believe in destroying the faith of others. GO AWAY TROLL BOY, you’re only showing your idiocy. If there IS a God you have surely not made him very happy….bully for you. You make me SICK!

          • Darran Jamieson

            What a Christian you are to relate some one else to Hitler and Stalin …..Obama even….. over a debate…. FlyBob… Jesus has taught you nothing…
            Just because you say you believe – that doesn`t make you a Christian….
            More of a Wolf in sheep`s clothing…

          • Flybob

            YOU don’t know Jesus, pity. YOU don’t get to judge me! lowlife. SHAME ON YOU FOR TRYING TO TAKE AWAY WHAT WE HOLD DEAR!!! You may pay dearly for that one day.

          • Tony

            I am not trying to take away Jesus or God or your “light,” but I must ask:

            For the sake of discussion and better understanding, does being a good person solely rely on ramifications being present/existent? Let me ask in another way, if God did not exist do you think that good people could not exist… of course not, then let me ask: if God did not exist, do you think you could be a good person still?

            If not, then I must say that it is unfortunate that your goodness is dependent on these things. I would think God would want you to be good whether or not there were ramifications and also if he had not sent Jesus as the sacrificial “lamb” for humanity’s sins. Don’t be a good person for God, be a good person for others. That was Jesus’ message, yes? I mean, Jesus didn’t heal others or sacrifice himself for glory or to have his name plastered in the history books; rather, he did it to bring happiness and encourage goodness in others.

            “When you have once seen the glow of happiness on the face of a beloved person, you know that a man can have no vocation but to awaken that light on the faces surrounding him.” – Albert Camus

          • Flybob

            Tony, I’m assuming you’re referring to my comment on religion being the base of civilization. It’s a general statement but the more bad apples there are the higher chance of the barrel spoiling AND some that are now good would be influenced by those who are not. Even those who find themselves taking action to defend themselves from bad people have to compromise their otherwise sound morality. Religion advertises bad karma for bad actions and even if unfounded it is good for civilization IMHO. Then there are people that MIGHT be leaning towards being bad that the rules of being good or bad having cause and effect on people being swayed to being better people. And by that I mean that I really don’t care about what anyone does, that is the definition of freedom so long as it has no affect on others. Religion and the rules thereof has a positive affect on most people and definitely on the masses of civilizations. Regardless if you don’t even participate it keeps some from being bad. There are however MOSTLY good people for the most part. At least I hope there are. I felt badly about stealing a comic book when I was a kid and never stole anything ever again in my life. That was before I found religion. I still wouldn’t do things that harm others (that don’t try to harm me or someone else) but there are those that would, without the possibility of “going to hell” for their actions. I personally have a quite different belief system on religion. don’t believe one has to go to church or pray every day to believe in certain things. I believe God is inside us (me) and not necessarily a building. I think the bible may have lost a lot of meaning and text n translations and I’m not totally convinced it’s the be all end all but something inside me tells me there is a God and a man named Jesus that died for the sins of man and I’m personally sticking to the belief. To each his own. I have my gut feeling and everyone else has the right to their’s. I don’t want to sway any others ad I won’t BE swayed by others. It’s just my opinion. I also believe we have a god given right to defend ourselves. Maybe some don’t think Jesus would condone that thought and the actions resulting from, but Jesus got mad and had anger at times too and no one should be compared with divinity. On the other hand the Christian religion has the best and most fair “set of rules” for all of humanity in my opinion. In fact the ONLY religion that I see that MEANS harm to others is islam and for the simple reason of self defense I am forced to hate those who subscribe to the doctrine. They want us converted or dead. I don’t want to be either. I have my beliefs and it gives me comfort. I hope you do too. If not that’s your prerogative. I think I’m waging my soul but if you disagree then rock on. I won’t brow beat you to think just as me. That’s up to you, it is your soul. Maybe you don’t even believe in a soul but I definitely do. Again that’s your call For me would rather err on the side of caution.

          • Tony

            Just so that I may get this straight, you believe the faith of Islam to be the only faith that means harm to others because “they want us converted or dead,” right?

            And you believe this operation of faith to be opposite of the faith you practice, yes? (This being the reason why you are “forced to hate those who subscribe to the doctrine”)

          • Flybob

            Tony, you evidently did not read what I said. I believe the vast majority of people ARE good. There are some that are PRETTY good but without the fear of ramifications might not be so good. And then there are those that without ramifications would DEFINITELY not be good. Your mother never said “Jesus is watching”? Or “is that what you want to be doing when Jesus comes back”? The world is not hopeless without religion and Jesus for some but they DEFINITELY make some difference to those who don’t have the same values that most good people have. My point is that no matter whether or not you believe, religion is one thing that helps man to make up their minds to be better people. I think civilization would not be nearly as palatable if there were no religion. As far as I have studied, islam is the only religion that condemns others for the simple action of not believing as they do. If you disagree with that then I urge you to read only the first chapter of their quran. It is a very violent and intolerant “religion” (actually I think it is more of a political idealism than religion). And for the record, I don’t care if you pray to the moon so long as you don’t try to make ME pray to it too.

          • Tony

            Flybob, I am merely asking questions in the hope you can answer. Please, remain within the boundaries of my questions and our progress in discussion will not be limited. I trust you have true and good opinions. I ask these questions so that I may better understand your position.

            I most certainly read what you wrote (i.e. the reason I directly quoted you in my previous question). But you did not answer the second part of my question: is the faith of Islam opposite that of your faith?

            And would you also say that the Quaran should strictly be judged on its first chapter? Please, Flybob, answer these questions simply and directly.

          • Flybob

            Pass….you’re settin me up for something stupid…..I explained my opinions and that’s plenty. Each has a right to think on their own. You form your own opinions.

          • Tony

            Ah, then you are wiser than I thought. I was not setting you
            up for something stupid; rather, I was setting you up for the realization of
            your own lack of knowledge. But unfortunately, since you do not wish to answer,
            I must infer the proper meaning of your opinions and show the hypocrisy in
            their foundations.

            You stated that the only religion you believed to be harmful to others was the
            faith of Islam because they believe that people should either convert to their
            faith or die. I asked you, for a straight answer, if you believed this to be
            the opposite of your faith. Since you did not answer, I will infer based upon
            your previous answers that the faith of Islam or at least the belief that you
            must “convert or die” is opposite to that of your beliefs/opinions.

            If that is indeed the case, then we need only look to the Old Testament: “Anyone arrogant enough to reject
            the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must
            be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel” (Deuteronomy
            17:12 NLT); “Whoever sacrifices to
            any god other than the Lord must be destroyed” (Exodus 22:20 NIV);
            “They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their
            fathers, with all their heart
            and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of
            Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman” (2 Chronicles 15:12-13
            NAB).

            If your beliefs/opinions are not swayed by the Old Testament, then you must
            believe the Jews (whom the Old Testament come from) are parallel with the faith
            of Islam in the essence that both condemn the nonbelievers (those who defy) and
            will put them to death… in other words, “convert or die.”

            But what of the New Testament: “In flaming
            fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey
            the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting
            destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power”
            (Thessalonians 1:8,9 Giddeons); “But
            those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them – bring them
            here and kill them in front of me” (Luke 19:27 NIV) – by the way, this is
            supposedly said by Jesus himself.

            It seems the New Testament has fallen under the category of “convert
            or die” as well. And yet, the key difference (and the very reason for so many
            different sects of religion – Christianity not being the only one) is interpretation.
            Good sir, Mr. Flybob, if you believe that the faith of Islam as a whole is
            wrong because of their first chapter then you are a hypocrite for the beliefs
            you so dearly hold as well. If you say, however, that it is a certain interpretation
            of the faith of Islam (radicals) that is heavily misguided then you set
            yourself upon a much smoother track of knowledge.

            As a side note, the three Abraham religions, if you did not
            know, are that of Hebrew, Islam, and Christianity as each one’s history is the
            same up to Abraham. There they diverge according Abraham’s sons. If you think the
            faith of Islam is wrong then you must also disregard or throw a piece of your
            own religious beliefs away in order to not contradict yourself as you have
            already.

            Now, I know you’re probably going to say I misquoted or did
            not completely quote the entire passage (in which a different light will be
            shed on the entire quote). I will happily include more passages,
            interpretations, more quotations, etc. if need be.

            Again, I am not trying to take anything away from you or to
            change your belief systems (as a whole). The entire point of my being involved
            in this discussion was to bring objectivity to it (and to show other possible
            sides in order to – hopefully – encourage open mindedness). I hope you can see
            that just because a book says something does not mean every single person who
            reads that same book seriously, will follow it word by word – unless you hold
            yourself to the same standards. I am happy for you to have solid
            opinions/beliefs that you are comfortable with and will not be shaken from, but
            if you are going to falsely label the believers of another faith based upon one
            passage then I will come in to show you how palpable the hypocrisy is. If
            anything, please just look up the Hasty Generalization fallcy.

          • Flybob

            Well see there! A wise man comes out of the darkness! I’M a hypocrite??? WOW! You THINK you were setting me up and even though you were very stealthy (and monkeys fly outta my butt) to make ME look stupid you only succeeded in making yourself look “brilliant”. First off if you had read ANY part of what I said, I told you CLEARLY that I’m not convinced of every word the bible says because of translation and allegedly there are as may as 7 chapters the kings wanted left out. Who knows, ANY ONE of them could have easily said ignore the rest. Then of course it was written by men who were possibly persuaded or coerced AND it could have been MADE more “king friendly” in translations, so I have issues with the “Holy Book” and questions that even my long time pastor uncle can’t even get close to answering that he even admits confound him, and he’s quite the scholar. Then there’s that pesky little thing named Jesus that died for our sins and pretty much negated the entire first testament. Almost ALL of Jesus’ teachings are completely opposite of the vast majority of the old testament, especially the violent portions. But Jesus DID appear to have anger at times when he saw injustices but in your vast knowledge f the bible you probably already know that. Hence the term do not mistake kindness for weakness.
            Then of course I mentioned CLEARLY that the most important part of my beliefs are that Jesus died for all of mankind and that “I do not know why I believe it”, it is in my gut which releases ALL teachings and scripture from my belief systems as far as my fundamental beliefs. Further more if you will actually study instead of spewing you will find out that even the crusades were to rid the world of islam and muslims and BECAME violent to almost all who didn’t believe as the violent did. It was a very bad time and seriously marked Christianity and as of today I know of not ONE Christian that condones the actions of that day. However I did not live in that day and I don’t know any other person that did. Guess what, I never owned a slave either NOR did any of my ancestors that I am aware of so that should be taken out of the equation as to what makes us good people? That’s YOUR assertion. MY personal beliefs (like I said does not need to be yours) is one of peace but not defenseless. islam CLEARLY today is the world’s most violent religion (don’t remember hearing of ANY bombings where radical Christians are suspects, or hindus or buddhists or any other) and the Christian bible (new testament) does NOT teach of violence anywhere I am aware of, like that matters to me and the quran DEFINITELY teaches to be violent and the EVIDENCE is CLEAR that they practice that pat of their teachings. It is also riddled with pedophilia ad mutilating and beating of one’s spouse for the smallest of infractions. It is VERY gender biased and brutal practice and if you had the knowledge of the quran that you CLAIM to have of the Christian bible you wouldn’t dispute that. And like I said, the evidence is OVERWHELMING that islam is NOT religion of peace and if you even THOUGHT of understanding the word “taquiya” you would understand we are being invaded from within our own borders and that actions is being PROMOTED by our own government. islam is spreading across the USA and we’re doing NOTHING to prevent the ultimate and probably violent take over of our own country.
            To end our conversation, and it IS over, you claim I am a hypocrite and YOU are not trying to sway or change my beliefs? Hogwash. WHY on earth would you even make MENTION of what you think is wrong with ME if you didn’t want me to think just like you? Why wouldn’t YOU just let me be “stupid” on my on? THE only reason would be to convince me of something you cannot change. YOU are the hypocrite and YOU are full of absolute bullcrap. You know NOTHING of what you say and yet you try to make yourself look good by attempting to make someone else look bad. My grandma always said that would ALWAYS backfire….EVERY TIME and she was right. You’ve done NOTHING but waste your time typing a bunch of lies and untruths in an attempt to change me and MY beliefs. Had I known you were the only light of knowledge in the world I would have seeked you out instead of Jesus. Go back to bed and vote for the fraud in thief when he changes the term limits or takes over our country. I personally have bigger fish to fry. If you had a lick of sense you would look around you and see that our country is about to be no more and do something constructive instead of trying to get someone else to drop their beliefs in leiu of your own.

          • Tony

            Please refrain from committing ad hominem and straw man fallacies when we discuss matters at hand. Thank you.

            First, you claim I did not read anything you wrote, then “justify” your beliefs of which I’m not even debating. Your second paragraph “CLEARLY” states your most important belief that “[you] do not know why you believe it” but you do; again, I’m not debating this belief. To clear up another point, I am not trying to “sway or change [your] beliefs” in regards to your own religion (of which you so eccentrically defend), but I will admit I am trying to get you to see your hasty generalization fallacy of the faith of Islam (yes, you may go as far as saying I’m trying to change THAT and only that belief). I never said anything is wrong with you per se, but of your one belief that Islam is the only faith being harmful to others. Lastly, in my previous comments you’ll notice if you read them again that I claim no such knowledge of the things I said: I asked you questions, you deferred so I inferred, and anything after that was either quotation (not a claim to knowledge, though) and interpretation.

            Now, as I admitted, I am debating your hasty generalization fallacy because you are claiming that the faith of Islam “clearly” practices violence and believes in a book “riddled with pedophilia mutilating and beating of one’s spouse for the smallest of infractions. It is VERY gender biased and [a] brutal practice…” You imply that all Muslims or believers in Islam practice these and believe in these, and that is the very implication or belief I debate because it is ignorant. I asked you questions to give you a chance to restate you premise or at least explain more fully your beliefs so that I would not misconstrue them, but you refused. So, with the implication I picked up on, I stated that you are a hypocrite as even you wrote,

            “I told you CLEARLY that I’m not convinced of every word the bible says because of translation and allegedly there are as as 7 chapters the kings wanted left out. Who knows, ANY ONE of them could have easily said ignore the rest. Then of course it was written by men who were
            possibly persuaded or coerced AND it could have been MADE more “king
            friendly” in translations, so I have issues with the “Holy Book” and questions that even my long time pastor uncle can’t even get
            close to answering that he even admits confound him, and he’s quite the scholar.”

            and yet you fail to see that not every Muslim or believer of Islam has the same conflicts with their own bible as you do? Yes, I call you a hypocrite because your belief as “CLEARLY” stated above should put you in a
            state of reference allowing you to see that not ALL Muslim’s believe their
            bible word for word or practice everything their bible says to. That is THE ONLY belief of yours that I have been debating. Do not misunderstand me. But you are right, this conversation is now over as I have said my points and, as best as I could, explain your fallacy. It is up to you to see it, though. If you wish not to, then so be it (or Amen).

          • Flybob

            Your own words are contradictory. The word “muslim” MEANS directly “true believer” so they are taught to remain within the confines of their book and the doctrine it teaches which is clearly convert or be killed in the most violent way. As I said, read the first chapter and if that doesn’t convince you the you’re just plain not convincible. . But when they’re beating up your wife for looking at another man or killing your daughter for dating a gentile then it is YOU who will see the light of islam and it is ABSOLUTELY national security threatening AND to our way of life in general. If you can’t see it has already changed every possible manner in America then you have not been paying attention and those like you WILL be the cause of the country’s demise. Simply because of YOUR ignorance and willingness to see the truth before you we will cease to exist as a country with free people. It is already underway. Get a grip Tony, islam is the root of many of our problems and should be viewed for what it is and no more. By the way, I was not taught since birth to hate everything that is NOT islam (Christianity) as the muslims have been taught. Don’t kid yourself, ignorance destroyed Troy and it is destroying us. Ignore it and live with the perils ensued. You really have to be very unobservant to miss that. There is no such thing as a good muslim. I’ll stand by that and until THEY denounce the actions of what YOU call radical muslims. I will NOT acquiesce to any other answer. I don’t want to be converted OR dead so my choice is clear. If you side with them then that’s your choice, that will clearly state your side and therefore become what I must defend myself and family from. You’re wrong and that’s all there is to it. A hypocrite (since you don’t seem to understand the meaning) is one who professes one thing and does another. Trust me, I do not

          • Tony

            Hypocrisy: “1. false claim to virtue” (Oxford Dictionary of Current English); “1: a feigning to be what one is not…” (Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary

            Hypocrite: “one who affects virtues or qualities he does not have” (Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary)

            Now, I don’t know where you got your “direct translation” of Muslim, but even if that’s true you’re implying that these people, Muslims, are unable to think on their own and are purely guided by their book. You are wrong. You have yet to make a valid statement explaining your hasty generalization. You actually are continually proving how ignorant you really are by sticking to your generalization. I’m beginning to get the feeling that you have never even met a Muslim in your life. The only information you have on them seems to stem from online readings or accounts of others purely against that religion.

            Personally, I have met many Muslims – non of which were violent or believe in all the things you proclaim they are taught. I’m betting your argument against this statement of mine is that the Muslims I met are two-faced and are actually deceiving in order to overthrow our government and kill those not wanting to convert. Even if that’s not what you would say, you are ignorant of your blatant categorizing of every Muslim into one group and labeling them all to be violent prone persons who beat their families and wish death upon America. You say I am “not convincable”? If you mean morally, then yes, for the most part. I will not generalize but judge on an individual basis. If you truly believe “There is no such thing as a good muslim,” then I am sorry for you as you are not even following your own beliefs in Jesus. What’s the golden rule again? “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” If that be so, then I cannot see you as a good person based purely on your own stated beliefs. Don’t get me wrong, though, I’m not attacking you. If I was, I’d be using derogatory words and name-calling. But here, I’m just stating what I have observed. I have no harsh or bitter feelings towards you.

            To sum up, if we take your generalization and apply it to all other religions then you cannot possibly say that there is a good Christian nor a good Jew. I’m sure you will argue against this as well, but as stated before: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all have the same history up to Abraham (in which a lot of violence was carried out) and these believers are taught from the book. Do not generalize unless you wish to be fair and generalize all the religions in the same light.

          • Flybob

            Tony, your assertion is that you get to tell me what to do. I have my reasons that I am worried about muslims in America and I don’t have to explain it to anyone. I’m a free man and can decide for myself what is right or wrong. I see evidence that convinces me of the things I have said and believe. So far as I know there is no law, though there probably soon be laws, against saying negative things about ANY religion. And just because you say I do doesn’t mean I have to do things the way you prescribe. Frankly Tony what I see about you is that you’re just damn awful right and so EVERYBODY has to think like you. I disagree with you. Your last sentence alone is direct evidence of that. The one where you TELL me “do not generalize” you show your true goal and that is to get me to think like you do. I hate to say it but you will probably find out soon enough if I’m right. I don’t think you’re going to like the answer to that. Now leave me alone and stop trying to make me think like you and throwing little insults at will. End of discussion. That’s one thing I CAN tell you and be right.

          • Tony

            I’d rather not have anyone think like I do; though, I would like for others to have common sense – that is my true goal, to help others right their wrongs. Am I always right? Not even close. Do I like to converse to get to a better understanding? Of course.

            Again, I have given you plenty of chances to clearly define your beliefs and back them up. You have had multiple chances to refute what I have interpreted to be your fallacious implications. On all accounts you have refused to do so and have instead decided to play a child’s game by piling on the fallacies in your arguments against me. Your grandmother was correct, this has dramatically backfired… upon yourself.

            I gave definitions from dictionaries (more books, I know) of which showed your wrong use of them. I interpreted what you have said in one way, questioned it so I can better understand, and all you do is speak on tangents while never coming back to even graze an answer for me.

            If you wish me to leave you alone then I will create my own fallacy by giving you a dichotomy: either refute my claims and answer my questions so that I may better understand your position (and hopefully, the same for you on my position) or do not post again. It’s simple because if you don’t post, I won’t post as I will have nothing to question for examination – in the same way, the person arguing against Socrates was always the first to turn. If you wish to compare me to anyone, be it Socrates as I do not claim to truly know anything (though I’m sure you will misunderstand that as well).

          • Flybob

            AGAIN YOU try to tell me WTF to do! You’re a moron of the highest order!! Your way or the highway. You haven’t proven ANYTHING except you like to tell others what you believe SO THEY CAN BE JUST LIKE YOU! YOU DON’T GET TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO AND THAT INCLUDES POSTING WHEN EVER THE HELL I WANT. So let me be as diplomatic as I can….GO SCREW YOURSELF WANNA BE SLAVE OWNER!!! YOU DON’T OWN ME AND I CHALLENGE YOU TO TRY!!!! FLAMIN FN IDIOT!!! You pissed me off this time moron. Go try your crap on someone without a backbone!

          • Tony

            I cannot properly reply to your comment. If you refuse to remain civil any longer then our discussion can go no further.

            May I remind you though of the Posting Policy for this website:
            “We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism, vulgarity, profanity, all caps, or discourteous behavior. Thank you for partnering with us to maintain a courteous and useful public environment where we can engage in reasonable discourse.”

            You have broken nearly all of the above in just your last comment. I’m sorry it had to end this way.

          • Tony

            I cannot properly reply to your comment. If you refuse to remain civil any longer then our discussion can go no further.

            May I remind you though of the Posting Policy for this website:

            “We have no tolerance for comments containing violence, racism,
            vulgarity, profanity, all caps, or discourteous behavior. Thank you for
            partnering with us to maintain a courteous and useful public
            environment where we can engage in reasonable discourse.”

            You have broken nearly all of the above in just your last comment. I’m sorry it had to end this way.

          • felix1999

            Don’t let him bother you. Even Justin Taylor will be on bended knee acknowledging Him. He has nothing to look forward to. We have the utopia people crave on earth with Christ. Isn’t it funny how they want a godless utopia on earth and believers get the utopia with God for eternity. I look forward to that. I feel sorry for those that chose darkness over light. I feel bad for those that are hardened by pride and blinded by self absorbed narcissism. Honestly to want to believe that you are a decent of an ape is laughable and insulting. At the rate our culture and morality is declining,bestiality will be considered “normal” and those who oppose it considered bigots and bestialPHOBIC. Flybob he is spiritually discerned and quite rude.

          • Flybob

            Yeah, thanks. He’s not under my skin, I just hope the slightly weaker minded (like there’s anyone with a more diminished capacity than me! hehe Just ask my wife!) aren’t affected by this cruel person. One who thinks their ideas are the only are truly not right. Maybe none of us is right but I like my thoughts and I’m wagering my soul that I am. This person has no light in his life and therefore is probably not a very happy person unless he takes the light away from others. I truly feel badly for him. He claims we believe in a “magic” man in the sky. Well I’ll take my chances on a living God that gave his son that died for me. If I’m wrong I’ve lost nothing. If HE’S wrong it’s a damn shame. But thanks a bunch for your kind words and support. He didn’t shake me or my faith even a little bit. God Bless!

          • Justin Taylor

            On the contrary, if you’re wrong…you’ve wasted everything you ever had. And that’s a damn shame.

          • Darran Jamieson

            ” One who thinks their ideas are the only are truly not right ”
            Isnt that you…. Your idea of God, the only…. So you truly aren`t right by your own standards….
            “If you`re wrong, you`ve lost nothing…..” Wake up and understand why the bible was created by MAN…. To control other men….. Govern them…. by other men. – You lost everything… your right to choose and decide in life…
            Nope – instead you just follow repeating what you hear, can`t prove any of it… Just repeat it all.
            And his son died for you….. You were not even born yet, – but for you ??….
            Yeah…. and we`re all idiots

          • Flybob

            Well the green teeth’s (tooth) just come out of the woodwork when they think they have a point to make. First off I didn’t say ONE damn word about the bible and my religion and faith is none of your damn business. You want to live without a higher being in your life then you just go ahead and live in darkness without hope. I choose WTF I want and you can do the same. SHAME ON YOU FOR GOING AFTER THE FAITH OF OTHERS!!! You want to think what you want then have at it but if you think NO one should have any faith then you may find yourself in a compromising position on judgment day if there is one. I actually believe God lives INSIDE of us if it’s a damn thing to you. In the mean time you’ll feel a lot better if you try to destroy others faith??? Yep, you’re a real good person. The kind I want around me….NOT! Mind your own business moron. Why you liberal idiots have to chit on other peoples lives and beliefs is beyond me. In the mean time all you really did was open your mouth and PROVE you’re of diminished capacity. Jesus teaches us to be tolerant, NOT defenseless. AND YES I DO BELIEVE JESUS DIED FOR ME…AND YOU but you’re too dense to believe anything. You believe what you want and leave the rest of us to believe what WE want. Frikin liberal idiots…another thing, I didn’t ask you or tell you hat to believe OR that what I believe is the only truth. What I said was I’m wagering my soul on it and so are you. Believe what you want.

          • Justin Taylor

            It’s our duty as atheists to show you the path to enlightenment. We learned this behavior by observing christians throughout history. It’s okay – you don’t have to be afraid – step out of the cave and see for yourself.

            You don’t suddenly become a rapist, or a murderer, or even want to have gay sex (although that’s always a possibility and that’s okay, we don’t judge). I mean, it takes a lot of time to build up to those ideals as a rapist – you probably should expect to rise like that your first day, just be aware of that. (The previous sentence is a joke, and if you don’t realize that, then well, now you know.)

            We don’t live in darkness – actually, I have the lights on right now, because it’s dark outside….wait, how did you know it was dark outside????? Holy smokes…I think this guy is for real – he just confirmed that it’s dark outside!!!! Let’s make him a prophet!

          • Brownthumb

            The thing is, we don’t care if you keep your faith, we aren’t trying to “take”it as long as you aren’t hurting others. We just want you to stop trying to shove your beliefs down our throats and into the classroom. We want you to stop trying to control others by trying to get and keep legislation that agrees with your faith’s teachings. You want us to leave you alone with your beliefs, that’s exactly what we want, for you to leave everybody alone to follow what they believe. Keep your religion at home (the bible says to hide it in a closet doesn’t it?) and we will keep our beliefs to ourselves.

            As for your claims of being a Christian, perhaps you should read 1 Peter 3:15-16 and heed the instruction given there and at least make an effort to treat others with courtesy and respect. Saying the things you do while bragging about your faith only serves to show just how much of a hypocrite you truly are. I find it to be truly laughable to see so called Christians acting like such hypocritical morons.

          • Flybob

            Just as you say, I haven’t tried to MAKE anyone believe as I do and I really don’t care what you believe as I have stated here many time. The simple truth is that those that I have responded to INSULTED ME FIRST, INCLUDING YOU! I have a right to MY beliefs and you have a right to yours, provided that YOU do not cram it down MY throat. Exactly as they are doing in our schools right now. I HATE islam and I really don’t care who doesn’t like me for it but other than that I have researched no other religion that means any other harm. An I am NOT a hypocrite and really don’t care what you think of me. That’s your right to in a free society. But for the record Christianity STARTED this country and has served us well even if you’re not a true believer. So here’s the deal, Jesus says to be tolerant but not defenseless. I’m really glad you can quote scripture and now you can quote me…..you’re a moron and talk about HYPOCRITE? YOu are the one trying to judge me and take something from ME that I hold very dear. You have NO right to tell me what I am or how I believe. Liberal azzhole. Now THAT’S judgmental but with good reason. YOU are forcing YOUR beliefs on others just by criticizing those who have faith. Something you will eventually pay for. Even get ONE Christian to change their mind to YOUR non- believing you have done a VERY bad thing, for that alone I have NO use for you or your kind. SHAME ON YOU!!!

          • Brownthumb

            Stating a differing belief not “forcing” anything on anyone moron. As for your of vulgarity and throwing the ‘liberal’ label as insult, I hate tell this and burst your bubble, I’m a republican is all respects other than religion. As for your claim of this nation being founded by Christianity, perhaps should study history a little better. This nation was founded by those fleeing persecution for their religious beliefs, which is why our constitution specifically forbids the government from endorsing any one religion over any other, keeps religion out of government and gurantees freedom of and from religion. Do you stay willfully ignorant so that you can spout such bs? I pity you, you must be very unhappy in life to be acting the way you do, you must be completely lacking joy or love in your life. As for quoting scripture, I probably know that vile book far better than you ever will, especially as you go through life with blinders on. It is truly sad. How you can claim to follow christ, who sat with sinners and treated all with kindness (except for those moneychangers on the temple steps), who instructed his disciples not to be rude or unkind to those who didn’t believe but only to leave if not offered hospitality. In 1 Peter 3:15, you are instructed to give answers and reasons for your faith to any who ask, and to do so with respect and courtesy. Yet you choose to act an ass. Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

          • Flybob

            Brownthumb, bet I know how that happened, I don’t like you nor do I have to explain myself, especially to the likes of you. Furthermore YOU insulted me first and butted in where you had no business. I do not want you to like ME and if you did I would be shamed of what I would be. You don’t get to tell me what to think or believe or anything about me. You just get to dry up like a dead fish on the beach. Go away little troll, you’re a waste of my time.

          • Brownthumb

            For one moron read over your own comments, you’ve more than earned any insult you received. That along with the fact that your poor command of the English language is why you take umbridge, not because of another’s intent.

            Secondly, last I checked this was a PUBLIC forum, so commenting on statements you put out there for the world to see and respond to is not “butting in”, or the first reply to another you yourself made would be butting in as well. Yet you wonder why others think you mentally challenged?

            Thirdly, you finally get something you want, I don’t like you. I don’t care that you aren’t concerned about what others think of you (strange that insults bug you so damn much then). Find some one you do like (if such exists, say a pastor for instance), have them read your comments and explain hypocritical behavior to you then. If I were you I would at least care about being honest with myself and be concerned with following my own convictions. Jesus said in that bjble of yours, not to run about in public, screaming and shouting your faith to all, but to hide away in a closet to pray, yet instead let others know you are a christian by how you carry yourself. Funny, you carry ourself as an ass, I would never have thought you to be Christian unless you screamed it at us. Were I this Jesus, I would not let such as you follow me.

            Calling someone a troll does not make it so. Just because you don’t like what others have to say does not mean their comments aren’t valid. Grow up and at least look into a mirror now and then to see if you truly reflect an image worth presenting. Were it only me who thought you dense, I might believe you had reason for taking issue. When it’s several of those posting, I really do think it is your lack instead.

          • Flybob

            It’s good you don’t like me, that means I’m nothing like you and THAT is a good thing. AND you’re right, YOU’RE NOT Jesus. Take hike moron, the rest of your comment isn’t worth responding to.

          • Brownthumb

            You have severe comprehension issues don’t you? I never said I was Jesus so what you mean by saying I was right is unclear. Unless you were areeing that if I were Jesus, I shouldn’t have anything to do with you. of course you would say the rest of my comment wasn’t worth responding to because you cannot reasonably or courteously respond to anything. It is obviously well beyond your abilities to have a reasonable, honest, intelligent debate or conversation on any subject. Once again I pity you, it is sad that your life and faith is so poor that you can do no better than your presented here. If you don’t wish to debate or discuss these issues stop replying, it’s that simple. I don’t search you out, I’ve been responding to your comments. Stop replying to me I won’t say anything to you. Obviously that is beyond your mental capabilities to figure out. It’s a good thing that you are God and Jesus aren’t real, otherwise you could end up in your mythical hell as well, according do your own holy books writings anyway.I hope you eventually grow up.

          • Flybob

            Mister, I am the chief pilot of a large fleet of aircraft, I hold every powered land based license the FAA offers, am a airframe and powerplant mechanic and I am a FAA certified inspector. I own 2 Tae Kwon Do schools and am an NRA instructor with self defense instructor credentials. I make a good living and m a decent person. I don’t need or want your pity.

          • Brownthumb

            By the comments and lack of any intelligence shown in your previous comments. I still think you an ass and a hypocrite deserving of my pity, which you have whether you want it or not. Your earlier comments do not show you can be a decent person and since you can make that statement you have a minute you don’t believe yourself to be a hypocrite you obviously lack intelligence and have comprehension issues. So I do pity you. How you can even refer to yourself as a decent person after having made it half the comments you made it here is beyond me. I honestly don’t believe you understand the meaning of the words you use.

          • Flybob

            Yeah sure dork, I’ve been the chief pilot for my company or more than 16 years, yep I’m dummer than a post. You worry about you moron. In the words of the great bard Phil Robertson, sick my duck! Any part of that you don’t understand?

          • Justin Taylor

            Ok, YOU didn’t descend from apes. That is insulting to apes and I apologize to any apes reading this discussion.

            The rest of us didn’t descend from apes either – we shared a common ancestor with apes. Of course, to be truly technically correct, we shared a common ancestor with every living thing on the planet, plant or animal. Evolution is amazing…without it, you could’ve just been a plant or a bacteria…

            I think it’s funny that you go straight to bestiality…..you should talk to somebody about those thoughts. I worry about the sheep.

          • Timberwolf

            Dude, I can’t even describe how flawed the theory of evolution is.
            It would take way too long.

          • Darran Jamieson

            And the bible is NOT ?? Give us a break Timberwolf

          • Justin Taylor

            Actually, you can’t “begin” to describe how flawed the theory of evolution supposedly is, because, well, you don’t know. I will personally guarantee that I can contradict anything negative you have to say about the theory of evolution. With facts.

            I’m betting you can’t use facts to “show how flawed the theory is”. Yep, I’m that confident.

          • Brownthumb

            The theory of evolution has been the most contested and challenged of all scientific theories, yet it still stands. The catholic church (and some other christian sects) now accept it nd try to work it into their doctrines. If you truly think it is wrong and can prove it, please try, you’d probably win a Nobel for it if you succeeded. The arrogance of your statement astounds me, very smart scientists with competing theories tried to falsify it, religions challenged it, yet you think yourself better than all who worked on the theory, testing and refining it, better and smarter than all who challenged it and attempted to refute it in the past? Please, go ahead and regale us ith your amazing scientific knowledge.

          • Darran Jamieson

            Their priest pretty much have all that covered Justin, along with Pedophilia

          • Justin Taylor

            I thought it was a given that priests covered pedophilia at a very young age…

          • Corey

            It gets pretty hot where he’s going LOL WHAT A JOKE. We don’t believe in garbage like that. Unreal how dumb people are within a religion.

          • Flybob

            I’ll tell you what the joke is….YOU trying to convince people there is no afterlife or reason for religion. Glad you got to label me though, now I get to think about how much I dislike people like you that try to sway people. If you even change ONE person’s mind and they don’t make it to heaven, that is if there is one according to you, then you’ve done your job…….and you’ll seriously regret it if you’re wrong. If you don’t believe that’s your prerogative but you should shut your damn mouth to those that do. Shame on you. Frikin liberal creeps, think THEY are the only ones with answers. YOU are dumb sir and when it’s said and done I hope you see how bad what you’re doing is.

          • chamuiel

            justin, you are a 10 year old infantile name caller. You have nothing else to offer.

          • Justin Taylor

            Again, another great example of irony and hypocrisy! You’re getting very good at it!

          • felix1999

            YOU provoke people and call others what YOU are.

          • Justin Taylor

            The “I’m rubber, you’re glue” argument! Nice! In all seriousness, you should go back to class and be nice to your teacher. Make sure you tell her if you have to go poopy!

          • Henry Bevis

            AND I AM EMBARRASSED TO HAVE YOU ON THIS PLANET. I worked in scientific research all of my working life and we have only scratched the surface when it comes to knowing about Earth and the space beyond. Why don’t you try and learn things? And admit that there are other people that know as much or more than you know. None of us know everything,

          • Justin Taylor

            True. I do try and learn things – damn near constantly. I’m sure there are people who know as much as I, and more. But probably not the guy who thinks you can C14 date a top hat or a hard hat….just sayin’.

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m curious – was the world still flat when you first started working?

          • Henry Bevis

            It was round just like every other thing out is space. Round is the shape most things go to when left alone.
            A very old story goes like this: The scientist were climbing the mountain of knowledge and when they got to the top they still did not know the exact answer, But they believed that they had it all pretty much had it figured out….when they looked down the other side of that mountain they saw the theologians waiting on them as the theologians had been believing all of the time. Humans have not been on this earth all that long and I doubt that we will ever find all of the answers that we are looking for as the human mind is always wanting to learn more and more about less and less.

          • felix1999

            Even the Bible doesn’t refer to the world being “flat”.

          • tionico

            Magic man in the sky? And you rant about idiots on YOUR planet? Come on, man…..

          • Justin Taylor

            Yep, my planet. I found a site on the internet and bought the deed. It was surprisingly cheap. As is, though….that part sucks.

          • Elizabeth

            and we could say the same about you

          • Justin Taylor

            ? I have no idea which thread/response you are responding to.

          • Justin Taylor

            Oh, it was out of order before. Now I see. Seems many of you take offense when I refer to you as idiots. Interesting.

            But your type doesn’t seem to have any issues with referring to atheists as ‘sinners’….

            Interesting.

          • SOCIALISM-MUST-GO!

            Who declared it your Planet ? Who has ever heard of you ? You are a grain of sand and drop of water and nothing more than your own self perception with the beliefs you possess.

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, hmmmm. Apparently, you have. So there’s that….I guess. How’s your zombie life going?

          • Justin Taylor

            You’ll have to see a different post where I already explained that I already purchased the planet. So yeah, it’s mine. Which reminds me, it’s time to discuss your rent payment.

          • SOCIALISM-MUST-GO!

            although I may be able to appreciate your humor I do not abide by communist or international law or secret treatise which I was not party to , furthermore I deplore the authority of eminent domain, anything which I occupy I have purchased outright by natural law, I was naturally born in to this world and upon this planet therefore I reject the concepts of slavery ownership whether they be physically or economically and acknowledge the only authority in reality which is the natural creator and submit the concept there against the right of controlled existence In that history of humans has proven that aroun the time that they start believing that they own or control anything they will be shewn and proven otherwise……either by total annialation o their species or of demise of their own making. Thanks but no thanks.

          • Justin Taylor

            This made me giggle.

          • SOCIALISM-MUST-GO!

            I must be antique ,I had n idea men did that.

          • SOCIALISM-MUST-GO!

            I must be antique , I had no Idea men did that.

          • Justin Taylor

            Um…ok…I think…maybe…. um…keep on keeping on?!

          • Jody Stark

            Justin, you are a sad and ignorant person, ever heard of peer reviewed, evidence based research? Google….really? LOL

          • Justin Taylor

            Google is a search engine – it’s used to search for peer reviewed evidence based on research which is what you won’t find associated with Ron Wyatt.

            Other discovery claims by Ron Wyatt:

            Found the blood of JC
            Found the ark of the convenant
            Found Mr. and Mrs. Noah’s graves
            Found the 10 commandments
            Found the exact spot Moses parted the Red Seas
            Solved all the problems associated with the construction of the Pyramids
            Found bones of giant “pre-flood” people
            Discovered the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah
            Every single person on the videos that Ron Wyatt produced declares Ron Wyatt is a fraud. Every single one of them. Many of them will even talk about the obvious fraud that Wyatt perpetuated, like dropping hammers into cracks in the stones, and then taking a metal detector over the area claiming ancient metal was present. None of his “test results” can be duplicated by scientists who went to verify Wyatt’s test results. NONE of them. I mean, it’s ridiculous enough that people believe in fairy tales, but then you’re gullible enough to believe an obvious fraud who wanted nothing more than to steal people’s money.

            Btw – you’d already know this if you knew how to use google :)

          • Jody Stark

            Justin, that’s the point, I don’t use Google. I apologize for misleading you. You are an angry person, but please don’t worry, I won’t offer to pray for you. Get perspective on life, Love not Hate, you don’t sound stupid. Keep searching. Jody

          • Justin Taylor

            Yeah, I kinda figured out that
            you get your information the old fashioned way – from children’s tales,
            old wives tales, or just making it up as you go.

            Who needs actual facts when you can just make **** up?!?!?!?!

          • Justin Taylor

            Um, yes, as a matter of fact, I have seen peer reviewed evidence based research!

            And remarkably, it’s the exact opposite of what Ron Wyatt did!! Pseudo-science and made up non-repeatable results that have been refuted by both real scientists AND the people who were in his video IS NOT “peer reviewed evidence based research”. It’s called fraud.

            Yes, GOOGLE. Really. That’s all it took. I know you’re used to getting your information from children’s tales and talking to unicorns, but I’ll tell ya what – UNICORNS LIE LIKE THE DICKENS! Yep. True story.

          • Christainwest

            In the beginning, the universe was pure energy, no matter existed then. Matter IS congeiled energy. How that occurred is the big mystery. I, for one, think that that pure energy was not quantified. It was not enrergy as we know it today. Today, we understand energy as waves and/or photons (packets of energy). But we still don’t know what a wave or photon actually is. That it is energy is a given. But , what exactly is a photon composed of ? Just as we don’t know what the ultimate smallest particle of matter is made of, we also don’t know what a photon is composed of. There is one word that is relevant to all forms of energy. And that word is ‘movement’ . But in order for there to be movement, there needs to be room for the movement. Room means volume. And volume means three dimensional space. consider this, there really is no such thing as one or two dimensions. These are merely theoritical abstracts. They are mathemetical concepts. The first dimension is the third dimension. I beleive that volume (space) was a result of that pure primordial energy that today we call the big bang (even though there was no sound then) pushing itself outward into the nothingness that existed before space existed. Space is three dimensional volume. The Big Bang was a rupture of somethingness (space) into nothingness. Space is a volume that contains energy and its by-product, matter. I also beleive that that pure primordial unquantified energy was the result of an idea of God’s. The laws of nature CANNOT be violated. All the laws of nature that we observe in everyday events and in atom smashers existed before the Big Bang (otherwise, there would be no ‘laws’ of nature). The ‘laws’ governing existance necessarily had to exist prior to the existance of energy and matter. And that’s why the results of experiments in atom smashers is ALWAYS the same for a given level of energy and matter. Merry Christmas to all.

          • Tuff Guy

            That’s pretty close to being accurate. See, I know someone who knows someone who knows someone who knows someone in the fourth dimension. He said that someone said that people in the fourth dimension can see us but we can’t see them and they saw someone from the first dimension start this Creator business. He went on to prove the second dimension then it just spiraled out of control from there.

            Kinda like this discussion.

          • tionico

            energy, matter, space…. are all SOMETHING. And the “theory” that nothing can predate something and become something is insanity. God predates all, and made it all from the power of His word… “let there be…….” and behold, it was so. Remember, God ain’t ilke us, finite.

          • Henry Bevis

            I will be 80 years old in a few days and I have wondered these things since I was a little boy. I have studied these things over the years and believe the things that Ron Wyatt had to say.

          • Elizabeth

            most scientist agree that God does exist, so people that say the bible and God is not real but they believe in science, well hope you got the point

          • Justin Taylor

            Show me the poll that says this. Seriously – if you want to make a claim like that – let’s see the facts that back it the real numbers. Like who did the poll, who scored the answers, when, etc. Can you do that?

          • felix1999

            We are all wired for God. For those that reject Him something else will replace Him.

          • OldNorthState

            I posit more specifically that perhaps Al Gore created it, somewhere sequentially prior, of course, to his creation of the internet… NOW things are starting to come together in support of the omnipotence of that mighty ProgLib icon.

          • Virgil Tattershall

            Oh my! Snarky remark, but I noticed you really didn’t back it up with any real facts. One more time, Oh my………

          • chamuiel

            Always attack someone’s character when in doubt.

            I see you are a strong follower of that practice.

          • Justin Taylor

            Ignorance means ‘without knowledge’. Really has nothing to do with character. Although, hypocritical – now that means something totally different, and so does ironic. For example, “It’s ironic that chamuiel would point out somebody else potentially attacking one’s character and attack them with the exact same premise as if they weren’t being extremely hypocritical.”

          • Rodney Davenport

            You love to here yourself talk, don’t you JT? Your merely rehashing the arguments that men have made forever about the existence of God. Thats the only reason you are on this site in the first place…so you can try to get a rise from a weak, or immature Christian. The mature Cristian knows your futility of life, and we feel for you. The Lord made you as you are just like he created every other person thats ever lived, exactly as they are, or were. A few believers like the Bible said, but most, unbelievers. All He wants us to do is tell about what knowledge He’s given to us. And thats what we do…He is in charge of who He wants to believe, not us. So you go on, spouting this and that. We don’t mind. Your words, or babblings doesn’t keep anyone out of His Kingdom. If you really knew anything of ‘time’, you’d know that we’re already there with Him…and your not. But I don’t know who is called or not, so there is still time for Him to change your mind. Look up dude.

          • Justin Taylor

            Hi Tinkerbell! Yeah…I’m gonna have to uh…disagree there……yeah.

            I have a great life and a great future, and thanks for pointing that out to me ::) See, I’m not a zombie, and I’m not brain washed, and I can think all by myself! You know what’s funny – you believe in fairy tales….yeah, I outgrew those by the time I was 8. I’m guessing your a right wingnut – probably think we need more church in school, and less government intrusion into our lives, right Tinkerbell? One of these days, you’ll wake up and discover that church and government are the same thing – asking for one is the same as asking for the other…but shhhh…don’t let the sheep know.

          • felix1999

            Like Obama, character assassination and vilifying people is what Justin Taylor does best. He’s just as arrogant as Obama too.

          • silverzone

            Big Bang is a theory, so is evolution, that means it’s far from being called a Fact. We basically don’t know. And we don’t know a lot. We didn’t even scratched a surface of of a planet we live on.

          • Justin Taylor

            Some theories have quite a mountain of evidence pointed towards their ‘proof’. And obviously, short of a time machine and billions of years worth of recordings, you’ll still swear that what you could watch would somehow still be something entirely different than reality.

          • Justin Taylor

            Can you tell me what FACTS make up the Big Bang and evolution?

          • Brownthumb

            Red shift, showing that the universe is expanding, which led to the big bang theory. The expansion is a fact, other things found in searching are facts, the ‘theory’ only gives the best possible explanation for how these facts fit together and work. The big bang does not say that all matter came into being at that time not does it attempt to explain where or how matter and space came into being, it only explains how our universe came to be as it is and why it is expanding. Evolution, many many fossils (facts), DNA evidence showing linkages to all living things (fact), studies performed over and over showing speciation happening and survival traits changing (facts), along with built up resistances to antibiotics being passed on in viruses (fact) which is why we now have medicine resistant illnesses. Evolution at work. I figured I’d answer since those true believers out there are completely ignorant of what those theories really say and represent so are incapable of answering. What they don’t get in their rush to deny evidence behind those theories is that even were we to throw out those theories tomorrow, there is still no evidence supporting the existence of any god, so all we can refute is their claims rather than testing their non-existent evidence.

          • Justin Taylor

            Exactly correct. Do you hear that? The sound of applause again….

          • Brownthumb

            Lol, I applaud each of your comments here as well. It amazes me how gullible people can actually be at times. Keep fighting the good fight!

          • Tuff Guy

            You just validated everything flybob said about the atheist agenda, that being to attack all who chose to embrace a philosphy other than yours. As an agnostic, I have to say you two are appalling.

          • Brownthumb

            For one, I have not “attacked” anyone’s philosophy. I have asked questions and I have pointed out facts. I cannot help it if these people don’t bother to research and understand the things that they are trying to refute. Ignorance can be cured by simply research, the only reason not to do such research would be to remain willfully ignorant so that they can continue spouting the falsehoods that they do. I wouldn’t care if they wanted to challenge scientific theories and showed an understanding of what those theories were, meant and challenge them with reason, logic and evidence of their own. But to make ridiculous comments about us evolving from apes, shows that they have no understanding of the theories at all. There rants, calling names and putting down athiests, along with their threats show that they cannot even follow the religion that they claim to belong to. The average athiest has read the entire Bible and probably has a better understanding of what the Christian faith teaches tham moat Christian s do. If asking reasonable questions and responding to stupid comments with facts, evidence and explanations is appalling I for one am glad you consider me to be appalling and thank you for the compliment.

          • Tuff Guy

            Perhaps I judged YOU too hastily based on your use of the the word gullible.
            I heartily disagree with your assumption that more atheists than christians have read the Bible. I would propose that a large number of atheists were raised as catholics. I also think Justin’s troubles go gar deeper than his catholic roots. I think he may have far more serious issues. And no I don’t say that because he doesn”t believe in God. He seems to be quite the angry young man. I wonder why?
            Years ago I experienced an epiphany after watching and reading Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos”. I never imagined ever believing in God. Then just a few years ago I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and seemingly small, un-noticable changes occurred in my life for the better. In short I became a better person.
            Now I have lost most of that faith (long story) but I would not be opposed to finding it again. Sometimes I realize I could use some help myself.

          • Brownthumb

            Please, feel free to judge me right alongside of Justin. He began by simply commenting that the article was untrue and claims that this was Noah’s ark were false. He was immediately attacked on all sides, called names, belittled and demonized. His requests for corroborating evidence or proof of further claims about evolution and the big bang went unanswered except by further attempts at insult by the so called “Christians”. That anger you speak of most likely comes not from his previous experiences, but from the treatment received in this thread. I don’t blame him and agree with almost all of what he has said.

            I tried courtesy, I asked honest and simple questions, I offered evidence to explain the theory of evolution and the big bang theory in an effort to straighten out misconceptions that people held here. I was met with insults, utter falsehoods about religious finds and rants into my character and intelligence. I’m human, I informed a few that they were complete idiots, especially to attempt refuting tested and tried scientific theories without knowing the least about them. Morons, one and all that do such things.

            As for more Atheists having read the entire bible than Christians, I have yet to meet a Christian who can honestly say they’ve done so while most Atheists I know not only have read the bible,but the quran as well. I have been told repeatedly by Christians that god never commanded the killing of innocent children nor that women’s wombs be ripped open so the infants inside could be killed yet both commands are in their bible. I’ve also been told by Christians that in their bible god never endorsed slavery, which tells me they never read Exodus nor Leviticus. Most Christians transport their bibles from home to church, never opening them except by the pastor’s direction during a sermon. As for Catholics, they are taught that they cannot understand the bible without interpretation so they don’t bother to read it, their bible exposure being limited to the readings (3 passages pre-assigned, the same passages read in every Catholic church that day) during mass. The Atheists who do speak out tend to actually study the bible, so they can point out it’s atrocities, contradictions and the instructions that are ignored by the churches. So I stand by my comment as it reflects my experience completely.

            As for the way they act in these public forums and the comments they make, I know they haven’t even studied the new testament. In 1 Peter 3:15-16 they are instructed to answer all questions about their faith and to give reason for it, and to do so with courtesy and respect. Their comments and attitudes here make them obvious hypocrites. It kills me that they excuse their behavior by further insults, claiming we’re all sinners but they are covered by grace while I’ll burn in hell. It shows that they have no understanding of what that “grace” truly is within their belief system. As I’ve said before, were I Jesus, I wouldn’t allow these people to follow me, based off their actions and words in these public comment threads. If Flybob and some of these others are the example of Christianity you wish to hold up, I personally am ecstatic not to be included in their number.

            Search for that faith again if you will, but please do so with honor, integrity and courtesy for others and their beliefs. At least follow your convictions and the teachings of your faith. As long as your faith hurts no one and you don’t use your beliefs to attempt to control others who don’t believe as you do, I have nothing against it.

            Those here don’t understand, we don’t want to “take” their faith, we just want them to be honest with themselves and think about why they hold that faith. We also want them to stop using their faiths as an excuse, for bigotry, hatred, persecution of those who don’t believe as they do and to stop trying to enforce their religion’s moral beliefs onto all. No one’s faith can be taken, only the individual can decide to keep that faith or to let it go. Sorry I went on so long, I’m tired and I tend to ramble when tired. G’bye.

          • Tuff Guy

            I would not consider it a ramble or a rant when you make such an articulated effort to explain your beliefs and opinions. You’ll get no argument from me on this post. For what it is worth you have my respect. I for one am moving on from this article. New posts are re-hashing the previous 1000 comments (eye roll).
            My best to you and yours in the new year.

          • Brownthumb

            Best to you and yours as well.

          • Tony

            Actually, you’re using the societal definition of theory (i.e. “I have a
            theory because I’ve experienced this”). The scientific community uses a
            different definition. To run through the steps of the scientific
            method; we observe, make a hypothesis, and test. If our hypothesis was
            proven to be wrong then we restate the hypothesis according to our
            further observations and retest. If our hypothesis was not proven wrong
            then we continue to test it. The entire basis of the scientific method
            is to make a claim and to TRY TO PROVE IT WRONG. That’s what most people
            miss as a theory is actually a hypothesis that has been tested SO MANY
            TIMES and has YET TO BE PROVEN WRONG.

            Evolution has been tested
            constantly since the scientific community began to take it seriously,
            and all results have repeatedly shown the connections (while trying to
            prove the theory wrong) that evolution is more than likely to be true
            (to the point that it’s almost indisputable – though scientists, for the
            sake of science or curiosity/inquiry, will not say it is the
            “outright-exact-way-things-happened”). The same goes for the Big Bang
            Theory, which has been supported heavily by mathematics (also shedding
            light for String Theory, M Theory, Quantum Mechanics, etc.)

            Science
            has never, however, been for the purpose of heresy or proving God or
            some other religious deity does not exist. There are plenty of religious
            scientists as well as non-religious or agnostic or just the “I don’t
            know” people, and they all work together in order to discover the beauty
            of our universe.

          • Tuff Guy

            Thank you for your common sense and sanity.

          • Henry Bevis

            Many things were said to be impossible in the distant past. How about air planes?
            Hundreds of years ago you would have been called absolutely crazy to say such a thing. Operations on the human body??? A few hundred years ago that would have been the talk of a crazy person.

            In short almost nothing is impossible…….just give us the time and someone will figure it out.

          • Justin Taylor

            I can agree with everything you said in the above post. For the most part – I like to be a bit more exact in references, but I get the point and generally agree.

          • justdooit

            Study the human eye and tell me what it evolved from…stupidity abounds from some doesn’t it…cripes!…Now, go back into your zoo cage…

          • Justin Taylor

            Sorry about you being retarded. Maybe some magic being will fix that. Just close your eyes, click your heels 3 times, and say “Biggie Smalls Biggie Smalls Biggie Smalls”… good luck with your zoo!

          • Timberwolf

            Erosion, wheathering, and ecsess or lack of oxygen all effect levels of carbon, hence rendering carbon dating unreliable.

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, C14 can only be used out to about 70000 years anyway. Which is why they use other elements like U238. Let’s be clear though – when we talk about erosion corrupting a sample, we’re talking about external C14 contaminating the surface of the sample. A core sample would resolve this issue. Do you mean “weathering”? I’ll assume you are talking about differences in atmospheric concentration and atmospheric production of C14. It’s completely true that the concentration of C14 can vary in the atmosphere. It’s also completely true that the atmospheric production of C14 can vary. Both vary quite frequently, and C14 dating has a +- range of about 10-15%, lower if the C14 can be calibrated.

            Thus, C14 dating is not completely unreliable – it does produce an approximation within an identifiable range. :)

          • IndianCowboy

            Yes, it is very sad about Steven Hawking. “To live hard, to die hard, and then to go to hell would be just too damned hard.” –Carl Sandburg.

          • Kate

            Oh I absolutely agree, that is why I am so fascinated with it. It doesn’t have all of the answers, and it never will. But isn’t that the beauty of it? The same can be said for religion. It doesn’t have all of the answers, and never will but is it not loved by millions?

          • Darran Jamieson

            and hated by millions too

          • http://spiritnewsdaily.com/ Donovan Moore

            Who’s the baffoon, lol.

          • tionico

            big bang equals SCIENCE? thanks for the laugh. Read Einstein’s theory of relativity and you’ll instantly realise teh “big bang” is just that… theory, and lousey theory at that.

          • Darran Jamieson

            The bible doesn`t even come close to theory…. Just that… half made up story… the other half plagiarised from other religions

          • Christopher Kaser

            Theory is more proven true. This is more hypothesis. And it’s wrong. God is real, alive! Rejoice in the Lord! The end times are near.

          • Brian Phillips

            I actually believe in the Big Bang theory, but I believe it was created by God. The big bang was a perfect storm of events, that had to happen EXACTLY as they did, in exactly the right time for the Earth to be created. The Bible says God created the heavens and the Universe. My belief is this is how He did it.

          • chamuiel

            show your proof, anything but your mouth.

            no telling where it has been.

          • justdooit

            P.T. Barnum would have LOVED you…a fool is born every minute…

          • Wes Edwards

            No, not biased toward science. Biased to their own egos and to protecting their own interests. Most of the detractors aren’t scientists themselves, they are scientific commentators. Like Richard Dawkins. He hasn’t been a scientist in decade, but yet still insists on weighing in on scientific issues. Not b/c he has any direct access to the science, has performed his own tests or even so much that the scientific community wants his opinion. No, he weighs in b/c of the army of followers who don’t care that he’s no longer a scientist. They just like the fact that he’s bashing those they consider the enemy. So he’s then relegated to being a anti-Christian pseudo-scientist, but everyone holds him up on their shoulders as a hero of science, reason and logic. A title he is woefully under-qualified to accept. It’s kind of like the few judges at Olympic ice skating competitions who have never skated in their lives, but have appointed themselves over the matter to dictate how others must view it. Viewers sit at home nodding their heads with whatever falls out of the judges mouth even though it is nonsense and immaterial. Aren’t you now guilty of the same?

        • Andrew J. Baldwin

          well said Wes. there is literally a mountain of evidence and personal accounts previous to the current generation, who is more skeptical than biblical. The ones who had first wrote about the ark who were of secular nature still admitted that this is the ark of the God of Israel. if they could admit the facts why do so many in modern times still want to argue?

          • Kate

            Facts, you say?

          • chamuiel

            facts, you don’t say?

          • Randy Cadmus

            No it was Noah’s ark. The Ark of God is different.

        • Justin Taylor

          Honestly, why would you perpetuate ignorance. In all seriousness people – they DID NOT find the ark as this article attempts to make you believe. It’s a farce. A fantasy. A fictionalized tale. A lie. Bogus. Seriously – if you really want to know and want to stop the garbage lies – GO THERE and check it out for yourself. They didn’t do any real tests – and what tests they did do didn’t even come close to the results they said they got. Just how gullible are you idiots?

          Next you’ll form a religion based on magic underwear….oh…damn.

          • http://www.rawstory.com/ Mark (MarkusGarvey) Estrada

            It could as well have been Gilgamesh’s boat, if it was a boat at all…Noah’s Ark is just a retelling of another ancient myth…

          • Henry Bevis

            Many, so called, ancient myth’s have turned out to be true.

          • Darran Jamieson

            That`s why it`s called a myth, part factual part fictional…

          • CharLiDog

            They’re called myths and religions because they are not history.

          • Jody Stark

            What do you think history is? LOL

          • Ronald Reiman

            So, prove it.

          • Darran Jamieson

            Thank you

          • mackelby

            Don’t be using facts on Christians, they hate that as much as liberals

          • CharLiDog

            Like climate change?

          • KJ

            Facts? Honesty? Abiding the law? Truth? Christianity?

            (roaring laughter)

            Those are the thoughts and sounds of Obama and the Democrats.

          • mackelby

            You don’t seem to like that fact. So I guess I am right. Thanks for proving my point. Christians are becoming very mean. I belong to Teapartycommunity.com the Christians on there are mean as hell,very un Christian like. I can see why seeing as how they are being attacked by the federal gov’t, but it proves they will adjust their beliefs as they see fit. Common human nature. The bible is nothing more than a earlt study of human nature told with very good stories.

          • KJ

            You’re ever so correct. Pointing out the lies, broken promises, and illegalities of Obama and his administration is very mean. It would be much “nicer” of me and the rest of the country to turn the other cheek and let him continue lying, cheating, and stealing.

          • mackelby

            I have to ask.what are you talking about? Nobody points out ovomit’s lies and lawlessness more than me. I promise you I am more conservative than you. I ultra conservative. Just don’t subscribe to religion. I have read and re read our conversation, can’t figure out where you got lost at.

          • SJ K

            prove it. Bible is not a myth. God loves you man. His Son died for you and me. He paid the price. Our sins were on Him. We were created in God’s image, God gave us free will so we can chose for ourself. But chose God. God is good! You can be saved through Him by believing and repenting. He is waiting for you! Jesus saves!

          • chamuiel

            I take it you must be one of those skin suits full of rotting meat they call an atheist.

          • Justin Taylor

            If by atheist, you mean I don’t believe in the magic man in the sky theory, then yes, that would be correct.

            Can I go ahead and make the assumption that you’re some backwoods inbred one-legged jackass with an indent on the forehead? I mean, if we’re just going to randomly label each other….

          • Timberwolf

            People like you are the reason people can never stop fighting nowadays. Quite frankly, people like you are the reason I no longer trust/associate with atheists. If we can accept your beliefs, accept ours without being an ignorant scientifically ignorant moron and insult everyone who disagrees with you.

          • Justin Taylor

            Or people like you as it takes two sides to fight. Do you understand why I assert myself? Perhaps I am so frustrated that religious persons won’t stop pressing their religion on me, in my face, every where I go. “I’ll pray for you.” “I’m so sorry you don’t believe in god.” “You’re going to hell.” I mean, give it a rest already. I haven’t the slightest idea how many times somebody has heard I’m an atheist and then they say “I’ll pray for you.” I mean, seriously, that is one of the most condescending things you can say – and then you wonder why we take offense. Perhaps that is where my lack of acceptance of your beliefs stems from — the lack of acceptance you and yours give to mine.

          • Lauri

            What if you are wrong? What if there is a God? Is it worth the risk?

          • Justin Taylor

            What if you are wrong? Is it worth the risk of wasting everything you’ve ever had?

            Lauri – what you are saying is silly. There is no risk to stating the obvious – the belief in a supreme being was manufactured by man to address issues they did not understand, and to keep people in a state of being controlled. Church is simply another form of government, and a ridiculous one at that.

          • G W

            What beliefs? You just crudely stated you have no beliefs other than to deny the existence of your Creator. You have a right to believe in nothing but why the rude hostility toward people of Faith? You act like a typical atheist, rude, hostile and condescending toward others. The overwhelming evidence suggest that this is a Holy Site. You have to possess a mind blinded from truth to ignore boat anchors bigger than a man up on the mountain. I don’t want to further agitate you but dude you need prayer. You have a lifetime to find God and Eternity alone if you don’t find Him.That is why people witness to you and pray for you. They don’t want you to be lost forever and neither do you, so here is the answer. Jesus Christ is the only way to be reconciled to God. He paid the price with HIS blood on a cross two thousand years ago. I took your advise and went to Israel and saw the empty tomb. It is true Jesus is the Son of God and yes it is true, Jesus rose from the dead so that you might believe and have eternal life. Save yourself man and believe it.

          • Justin Taylor

            I have no belief in a god or supreme being or fairy or unicorn or leprechaun or ghosts or many other make believe things. But, I do indeed have beliefs. One of those beliefs is that people who do believe in a supreme being are either stupid, extremely ignorant, or weak minded.

            There is no “overwhelming” evidence. It’s been proven to be simply an odd rock formation. Get over it.

            There were no boat anchors found. IT WAS A MADE UP LIE. NO BOAT ANCHORS. NONE. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO.

            I don’t want to agitate you, dude, but you really need psychological help. You’ve been brainwashed since birth into believing a made up fairy tale to control you. You have one lifetime to live and if you waste that hoping for some eternal life afterwards, well, you just wasted everything you ever had. You should respect your life more than that.

            Pray all you want. Heck, pray to Ra, Zues, Aphrodite, Kron, JC, Allah, or whatever god you want. Pray to an apple tree. But you should probably talk to an actual psychologist about your fascination with talking to yourself. Really.

          • Ed Phillips

            The Heavens declare His Glory ! All of Creation screams of a Creator ! Open your mind and your Heart Justin ! Eternity is Forever , and to be in outer darkness after being in His Presence for a moment of Judgement , is too awful to think about ! Jesus Loves You no matter what you say or think . He Died for You and Me ! He Loves You so Much He would have Died for You if You were the only person on this Planet ! Ask Him to Reveal Himself to You . If Your sincere , He will do it for You .I Hope You will Let Him into your Life .I’m glad I Did ! I’m just a Believer who cares ! God Bless , Ed Phillips

          • Justin Taylor

            Wanna buy my unicorn?

          • 914

            Then why are you wasting your life posting here fool?

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m bored and decided to spare a few moments of my valuable time in the hopes that some of you could be saved from a lifetime of church slavery.

          • Jody Stark

            If I was as sad and lost as you are, I would be quiet. How do you think your ugliness is helping anyone? It sounds as though your heart is full of hatred. Hit your knees dude, lower your tortured head and quiet your mind and please quiet your mouth, it makes you sound evil. You do understand evil, right? That overwhelming urge to hurt others….Where do you think you came from, or what, in your case. Please use evidence-based facts during your tirades, or else you sound like an idiot. You don’t need to see a psychologist, you just have, and you and your type of evil is what is wrong with this world. Love man, LOVE, regardless of where it comes from, evil does not love.

          • Justin Taylor

            LOL. I’m not hurting anyone – if anything, I’m trying to help you brainwashed idiots gather yourselves up from the slavery of church and help you identify with actual reality. Real life is sooooooo much better than bending your knees to a church that only wants to control you. You’re probably republican, right? Yeah, I thought so. See – Republicans preach smaller government, but bigger church in your life…. and Democrats preach smaller church, but bigger government….

            See the connection yet? Neither one really gives a rats pitutie which one you pick – you’re in their control either way, Tinkerbell. But you just keep handing over those dollar bills…

          • Randy Cadmus

            Well justin… Did you think that it may be before metal was discovered? Or maybe that wooden anchors had petrified. OR that Noah didn’t need an anchor for an ARK. if the world was covered in a flood… What would the purpose of an anchor serve?? NOTHING. when the water subsided the ark came back and rested wherever it was. Did Noah give a rats ass about an anchor. No. He was saving wildlife and humanity from drowning. IDIOT.

          • Justin Taylor

            Um, yeah, um…you do understand what boats used back in the olden times were stability anchors, right? Meaning, they were basically weights used to keep the boat from rocking back and forth too much. These types of anchors weren’t used as we use anchors now, which would be to anchor to the sea floor.

            But thank you for displaying just exactly what type of ignorance exists in this world, and also displaying the ability to type something up, even though you absolutely have zero idea what you’re talking about. What you just typed is absolutely ridiculous and everyone who has read it has lost IQ points because of it. Thanks for playing.

          • Christopher Kaser

            Well said and Amen.

          • C.S lover

            Justin I will pray for you.

          • Justin Taylor

            You’re going to hell. Send me a postcard.

          • Jody Stark

            You believe in hell? Duh dude. LOL

          • Justin Taylor

            No, but YOU do…LOL. Do you also subscribe to the magic underwear theory?

          • 914

            No ones pressing anything on you. You clicked on the link and spewed angry venom. Not our fault you have a God complex. Should get over seeing as you are your own god.

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m more of a god than the one you believe in, that’s for sure. See, I’m actually real.

          • Jody Stark

            It sounds like a lot of people may think you need prayer Justin, why it that?

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, I can tell you it’s not because they’re over-educated, I know that much.

          • TheFIsh

            Why should it bother you that someone says “I will pray for you”.

            Scared that it might actually work? I don’t get your idiocy. You don’t even have to be vocal about it.

          • Justin Taylor

            Thought I already explained that. It’s condescending. Period.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Justin you assert yourself because your a TROLL.

          • CharLiDog

            You don’t understand. We are no longer silent. Haven’t you noticed? You don’t get to lie as before. You don’t get special privileges as before. We’re done with your intellectual dishonesty and we’re calling you on it. The fact is, who cares what you accept? You’re a theist. You believe in faeries, you think you can communicate telepathically with Bigfoot, you make decisions founded on pink unicorns influencing reality. You’re in a barbaric blood sacrifice cult. You worship the concept of a disgusting, child killing monster. It is you that cannot be trusted. We can prove it.

          • DrSique

            As a secularist, I wouldn’t be throwing the “child killing monster” accusation around too much. It is, after all, your ilk who whole heartedly support the abortion industry. Over 50 million slaughtered.

          • Randy Cadmus

            He should go ahead a throw out the “killing kittens” mantra while 25 million babies will be slaughtered in the next 5yrs.

          • Jody Stark

            What an idiot. LOL

          • Randy Cadmus

            No your a pagan. You believe in faeries and cauldrons…spells, control and manipulation. Charlie… You need TROLLS ANONYMOUS. The first step is to admit your a troll… And get liberated.

          • CharLiDog

            Wow, that’s a lot of projection. I’m not the one claiming invisible forces, you are.
            So you can’t mount any defense except to cry ‘troll’. The first step is to accept that you’ve been pwned. No need to apologize, I’m the one that should feel a little bad. I’m basically making fun of retarded people.
            Now, how about you. Is there a context where stoning a child is moral?

          • Dustin Larson

            Pwned = A man who accuses others of telepathically communicating with bigfoot but in the same breath states that we came from one….
            Why mount a defense when the best defense is to call a spade a spade? Or in this case… a troll?

          • SJ K

            prove it then.and if you’re not silent anymore, good for you man. speak up then. but is your talking brings good or bad? decide for yourself. you can do whatever you want. God gave you free will. And since when Christianity had privileges? Christians never had any privileges. They always been persecuted. And yet Christianity is still alive. and He is not a BigFoot. He is God who created you and me in His image. So all the people on this Earth look just like Him! No big foot as you see. i don’t believe in faeries. i believe in God and His Son Jesus Christ. And communicate with Him through the Holly Spirit that He gave us. God is in control of everything, but He gave us free will so we can chose whatever we want. I chose God. You chose to be an atheist. Good for you. But God is way better. We don’t kill children. I know you gonna mention Old Testament where it’s written. But did he killed his son? no, he did not. You said that you don’t care what people accept. But you hate what I accept. I accept God and His Holly Word and everything that’s written in it. And you hate it. But know this – God loves you. He gave His Only begotten Son so you may be saved through Him by believing and repenting, through His Grace and Mercy. His Son paid the price. Jesus saves! Repent! I’ll pray for you man.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Magic man in the sky, very scientific.

          • Justin Taylor

            Exactly!

          • Jody Stark

            You are in need of help Justin. For yourself and ugly, hate filled heart. Ask the person you know that avoids you and will not look into your eyes, you know, the one who looks down and takes a step back when you come near, the one your friends seem to want to be around, the one who has peace and you think is a whimp, you just can not understand what it is about them that makes them happy. You’re uneducated and unwilling to learn, because you know you’re smarter and better than anyone you associate with, seek professional help, as a health professional, I could not get passed your anger and hatred for life. You treat everyone as though they are stupid and people are afraid of you, I know I am, and you will hurt someone if you haven’t already. Just a matter of time. You will self-destruct, please don’t take an innocent with you.

          • Lee Havens

            just a general statement. aethiest or christian. we are all humans and prone to flaws and failure. i think both groups on here are wrong to be mocking, and name calling rather than presenting reasonable, and well thought debate. that being said, i dont belong strictly to either camp. yes i believe in god, and heaven and hell, however i dont believe in organized religion. The level of hypocrisy in organized religion is redicoulus. Rant over. Yes i know my spelling and grammer are terrible, no flaming already acknoledged.

          • Justin Taylor

            Now that we see you’re coo coo for coco puffs. Seriously, heroin is a pretty serious drug – you should seek some help.

            Hey, didn’t Adam Lanza attend church, and his mom who taught him so well? Weren’t they christian? yeah, I thought so…it’s a certainty – I’m way more worried about YOU than anybody will ever be worried about me.

          • Rhys

            No. Transcendent, pan-dimensional Intelligence who is the origin of all life and information.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Your question requires an answer from someone above my pay grade.

          • Randy Cadmus

            And I’ll presume your a genetically predispositioned IDIOT who sports the objectivity of a kid in a candy store. Please have no kids. The gene pool begs you.

          • Justin Taylor

            Sorry, I’m not good at reducing my reading comprehension down to a 2nd grade level – could you maybe go have a chimpanzee translate that for you so I can make believe I’m talking to something with a brain? Thanks!

          • Randy Cadmus

            That’s perfectly plausible coming from you.

          • God

            That a chimpanzee is more intelligent that you – yes, that is perfectly plausible to me. Thank you for pointing that out.

          • SJ K

            Bro you need Jesus. God loves you man!

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m not your bro, bro. Get off the weed, bro….you don’t have enough brain cells to be experimenting with drugs like that. Won’t be long before the magic underwear get you….*shiver*

          • SJ K

            is that all you have to say? people denying existence of Noah’s Ark because they don’t want to accept God and the Bible. because if this is true then God is real and His Word is speaking the truth. anyways man, you can say whatever you want, ain’t gonna change a thing. you heard the good news, you heard a lot about God. you responsible for your choice, God gave you free will.remember this my friend, when your life is a dead end and there’s no point in this life anymore just look up. there’s hope. cry out to God, He will help you, He will come for your rescue cuz Jesus Christ His Son paid the price. He will forgive you and welcome you as His child no matter what you’ve done in your life. you’are probably disagreeing with everything I’ve said, but God loves you. I’ll pray for you. and i don’t do drugs.

          • Darran Jamieson

            chamuiel
            And you`re obviously a gullible mindless idiot whom says ” Christian ”
            But with the intent of malice in your words, We all know where you come in. Another one of those Make Out Christians, only believe and follow when the time suits….You`re an imbecile

          • KJ

            The “rot” is spiritual and not physical. We should not chastise or castigate others for their different beliefs, or lack thereof. Leave their souls to Providence.

          • Ronald Reiman

            And you know this because you have been there and conducted tests yourself?

          • Justin Taylor

            Nope..I know some guy who knows some guy who knows some guy who read it in a book. And since it’s in a book, it’s irrefutable.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Your answer speaks for itself.

          • Justin Taylor

            I figured a ridiculous claim needed no less than a ridiculous answer. That you missed the sarcasm involved does not surprise me in the slightest.

          • jt

            I guess since comics are books then the stories that are told in them are true. I mean its in a book so its irrefutable. Science is not always hard core facts. Alot of information is still theory and unknown.

          • CharLiDog

            You misuse the word “Theory” in the context of science. A theory is the highest plateau in science. A hypothesis is the initial stage of the scientific method and is equivalent to your use of the word theory in your reply.
            Let me use ‘evolution’ to illustrate. “Evolution” is a fact by definition. You nor your kids are clones. We call that evolution. The ToE (Theory of Evolution) is the mountains of evidence and conclusions based on our knowledge of the fact.
            Just saying. We need to be accurate about such things.

          • jt

            I didnt misuse the word theory in any context. Did i give a definition.? No. Did i say it was something it was not? No. I am also well aware of what a hypothesis is as well. A theory is an idea just as i suggested. Yes it can have elements that can support it but it is still just what it is… an idea. And as far as Theory of Evolution, when did i say anything about that. I merely said isnt science filled with theories and hypothesis anyway. Or something to that nature. Im paraphrasing. But i do appreciate you taking the time to try to tell me my misuse of a word that i never really gave a definition or meaning to in the first place. In the future i will try to be more careful as to be more accurate. Just saying.

          • Tony

            Actually, you did misuse the “word theory.” As I posted further down in the comments…
            “You’re using the societal definition of theory (i.e. “I have a
            theory because I’ve experienced this”). The scientific community uses a
            different definition. To run through the steps of the scientific
            method; we observe, make a hypothesis, and test. If our hypothesis was
            proven to be wrong then we restate the hypothesis according to our
            further observations and retest. If our hypothesis was not proven wrong
            then we continue to test it. The entire basis of the scientific method
            is to make a claim and to TRY TO PROVE IT WRONG. That’s what most people miss as a theory is actually a hypothesis that has been tested SO MANY
            TIMES and has YET TO BE PROVEN WRONG.”

            Your claim that “A theory is an idea just as i suggested” is wrong in the context of science. Socially, you have a right to your opinions… or theories. Two different definitions for two different contexts.

          • David Reedy

            Not only self-righteous smug in your attempts at labeling others self-righteous and smug you also misrepresent scientific terminology. I’m glad you’re so smart. Let’s agree that the bible is a myth for a moment. In this world as it is, at do you propose we replace cultural norms and unified ritual with–for that is and always has been the purpose of religion-religio-ritual, a bonding enactment of beliefs and behaviors… What magic awesome tool do you have that would replace Judeo-Christian ethic or Buddhist introspection or Native American communion with nature and the great spirit What would you replace it with–because international communism and humanism have worked so well, right? About 200 million deaths caused by communism, that’s pretty well neck-and-neck or ahead of religious atrocities. Still, let’s get back to the point, smart guy, you and so many other self-proclaimed enlightened ones would knock down the foundations of civilization–and what would you replace it with? Still waiting… By the by, if scientific law is the end all and only answer, how do you explain creation and existence–it all came from nothing right, all on its own? When sciences own precepts clearly show us that nothing (known to us at least) can come from nothing… so, explain it? In the end, smart guy, your theories are going to be just as absurd as anything else already suggested.

          • Tony

            Actually, science has never legitimately been claimed to be the “end all and only answer.” And you are wrong to say that science claims that nothing came from nothing. I’m assuming you’re speaking of the Big Bang Theory; science essentially does not know exactly what came before the Big Bang… that does not mean nothing was before the Big Bang, though.

          • KJ

            Voilà. You’ve just discovered the Democrats’ justification for Obamacare.

          • Justin Taylor

            Or pretty much both parties justification for everything. Church….government…. they are the same thing.

          • Laurie Bongard

            Justin, if “end times” ever happens during our lifetime – the second coming of Christ will be so obvious, you won’t be able to deny Him. That has been promised. If you see proof and remain in a state of denial – you will be lost forever. Your life and existence will mean nothing forever more. I’m not judging you. That is not, and will not be my job. If you don’t like people saying things such as I have said to you – be smart enough to stay out of the conversation.

          • Justin Taylor

            Really?!!! OMG!!! Like, you’ve totally convinced me!!!

            I’ll tell ya what, YOU go ahead and worry about stupid fairy tales and old wives tales, and I’ll go ahead and make fun of you for being an ignorant Nancy who’s not adult enough to figure out the difference between fiction and reality! Deal?

          • 914

            Not as gullible as you are ignorant. Haters gotta hate.

          • Justin Taylor

            You believe in a magic man in the sky and that man was made from mud. And a talking snake.

            But “I’m” the one who’s ignorant. Hey, coo coo…

          • SJ K

            it’s all been proven man. atheists now distorting the truth. But know this – God loves you man. His Son Jesus Christ paid the price on the cross.The wrath of God was on Him for you, for me, for all of us sinners. Jesus died for you, and for me so you and I may live, so you and I don’t have to pay the price. Repent. Jesus saves! And God is good! You need Jesus! We all need Jesus! Don’t deny Him! Time is running out fast!

          • Justin Taylor

            “it’s all been proven man”. Here let me fix that for you:

            “It’s all been proven to be invented by man.” Have a nice day, bro.

        • Darran Jamieson

          The professionals can`t agree yet with what has been found, with all their years of higher education and college degrees….. Now have a look at you Idiots…..convinced it is real….because of some other tiny fact that can`t be proven either….It has to be the ARK ey ? What … No other ships built back then…. Just Noah and the ARK ?? They use to make walls out of wood to back then too …. to defend their citadels …. It just has to be a boat unh? Oh… It just has to be Noah`s too…I suppose the anchors were really the commandments and the water has eroded the inscriptions off of them ?? Do you know the bible isn`t true… yet you take out of what you wish to believe to keep believing in a lie ??

          • Ronald Reiman

            A wooden fortress on a moutaintop? So you decide that nothing in the bible is true and you have made you your mission to convince everyone.? You, the only one to know the truth, wow?

          • CharLiDog

            Between those two, which is more likely? A physics defying boat that survived a flood that didn’t happen, or an ancient building. Everything about the flood story is utterly ridiculous. We know there was no worldwide flood as described in the buybull. We know it. Know it. The truth is, we can rule out this site being the ark.
            How can anyone take the flood story literally? There isn’t a plausible aspect to the entire story. You’re into serious Jack and the Beanstalk territory with that one. Take any part of it. Like, what are the odds that after being at sea several months the boat would end up close to where it started? Keep in mind there would be no land masses to influence currents. … Come on, man. Stop it. You’re hurting humanity by hanging on to these barbaric superstitions. Like I said, we know the flood did not happen. We know it.

          • KJ

            Just because there are sects of Middle Eastern people who are so blinded by their hatred of Judaism that they deny the existence of the Holocaust does not make the tragic event any less real.

            You are welcome to disbelieve as is your right. But to deny other people’s belief in religious tenets and history is just plain mean-spirited.

            Freedom is not meant to be a weapon that one wields as a sword.

          • Ronald Reiman

            It has been given to you to know what happened and what didn’t happen. If Ron Wyatt found a boat on the mountains of Ararat and has tested his findings scientifically, had the results of testing of huge iron rivets which could only have been man made. We do not know what happened in the past, sure it seems unlikely that such a flood occurred, but if he has found a boat then we must look at the evidence objectively. It is a boat shaped object high up a mountain, so what the heck is it and how did it get there?

          • Justin Taylor

            It’s a rock outcropping that happens to look like a boat. There you have it – next.

          • Ronald Reiman

            How many objects like that have ever been found. Open your mind to a possibility and look at the reports.

          • Justin Taylor

            I did. He’s a fraud.

            Next.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Five short words equals what? The man spent years at the site. I remember seeing a photograph of this site in the 70′s, so someone went there to have a look, have you been there to have a look?

          • Justin Taylor

            It’s not wood. NOT wood. It’s a formation of rocks. Never seen rocks before? Ever seen a boat made out of rocks?

          • Tuff Guy

            I know that you know everything but in geology, petrified wood is closer to rock than the original very old wood.

          • Justin Taylor

            It’s not even petrified wood. Dude, I’ll give you that it LOOKS like a boat, but it’s just an odd rock formation.

            We have a rock formation outside of where I grew up that is called the Pig and the Princess. It’s rock. It’s not some old statue. It’s not a petrified or mummified pig and a princess. People want to make believe this is a boat – but it’s not.

          • Tuff Guy

            The Pig and the Princess? Sounds like a fairy tale. Careful. You might start a religion.
            We will never know all of the TRUE facts about it because there is no money in it. Except maybe for the locals as a tourist stop.

          • Brownthumb

            I’m not claiming to know “everything” about geology, but I do have a couple of pieces of petrified wood. The easiest way to tell petrified wood from normal rock, is that the wood still looks like wood. Petrified wood has growth rings, the grain shows, knots and anything that the wood had before it was petrified. The site was studied by geologists, samples were taken and it is rock, not petrified wood.

          • Tuff Guy

            I was actually replying to Justin. But thanks. Your info was very informative.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Fossilised wood, In 1987 the site was investigated by Ron Wyatt, in those conditions wood does not stay as wood. Wyatt came to Turkey at the request of a Turkish government request, accept it or reject it. Ho hum.

          • Justin Taylor

            That’s easy. REJECT.

            Did you know what else Ron Wyatt found everywhere in the world when trained archeologists could not?

            The blood of JC.
            The actual tablets of the10 commandments
            The burial spots of Mr. AND Mrs. Noah
            THE ark of the commandments or whatever it’s called
            How the egyptians built the pyramids
            Sodom and Gomorrah
            etc, etc, etc.

            This dude is a FRAUD. Snake oil salesman. Everyone in his video has publicly REFUTED ALL HIS CLAIMS. Every. Single. One. They’ve even told about his intentionally falsifying his claims – like dropping hammers in crevices and then going over it with a metal detector and claiming the site had iron deposits. I mean, get real – the guy would sell you burial plots on the Sun if you were that gullible. Coincidentally, I have two spots available – real cheap. AND I’m selling my unicorn.

          • Ronald Reiman

            So you happen to have an Asian rhinoceros ? The question was put about the discoveries, none of his detractors even bothered to go looking so you can’t expect therm to find anything. There are scientists who back his claims, other refuse to because they were there and found nothing because they didn’t bother to look. Ever hear of jealousy? So how many hammers did he drop into how many crevasses? It wasn’t hammers that he sent off for testing at US labs. With one bold statement, everyone you say, in his video’s refutes his claims, there you are wrong, but if you have no facts to back up being wrong, if you want him to be wrong simply to want him to be wrong is not proof, then it becomes a lie. Everything you claim can be refuted, everything you claim sounds like a desperate man wanting him to be wrong, are you afraid that God may be a reality?

          • Is this better?

            Here dude. This site was done by the President of Christian Information Ministries Bill Crouse. Read the evidence. And this is only the nice evidence.

            http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm

          • Is this better?

            This is a site maintained by a teacher of Noah’s Ark, Linda Gunderson.

            http://tccsa.tc/articles/wyatt.html

          • Is this better?
          • Is this better?

            Look up: Bernard Bradstater, John Baumgardner, Thomas Fenner,
            Herold Follett, Danny Shelton.

            All refute Wyatt’s claims. Dude – Wyatt is a fraud. FRAUD. Ever hear of frauds?

          • Ronald Reiman

            The Turkish government accepts the site for what is claimed, the Turkish government has built a visitors centre for the ark. Stop and look openly, use your eyes instead of the words of jealous men. What makes a trained archeologist trustworthy, his words or his qualifications? How about his reputation, getting a degree in archeology from a university does not make any one honest.

          • Wes Edwards

            Maybe you should take a look at the external evidences found in the area surrounding the claimed ark site before making such an uneducated claim with such lack of accuracy while boasting in your own ignorance. If you lifted your eyes above the anti-Christian talking points and non-existent research on your part you would find multiple cities named after Noah, his family and the ark in the immediate area of the site. You would also find multiple anchor stones found on a mountain side near the ark with no other plausible explanation that fits the geographic and cultural constraints of their locations. You would also find graves and caves which are articulated throughout history by secular documents and local testimonies alike as belonging to Noah’s family. You would also find the claims of many secular and other regional documents attesting to how the boat was recognized as the ark and has been there in that exact location for several thousand years now with the local people groups using it as a tourist attraction. A civilization hub sprung up from around it, not the other way around. So you see, in order for your assertion to be correct thousands of years of testimony and hundreds of facts would have to simply not be true. Unfortunately, I know what your answer will be before you even utter it: Of course! You’re right b/c you’re the smartest person who has ever lived and hundreds of thousands of people and facts are wrong just b/c you said so. It’s like I’m looking at a scale with all of history on one side and you alone on the other and you think somehow your opinion outweighs the other side’s experience and knowledge in perpetuity. Sounds about right, huh? :(

        • Randy Cadmus

          Snopes is run by leftist agenda couple tied to Obama…

      • Lynda

        Bwa, ha, ha, ha! SNOPES???? Seriously? SNOPES???? LMAO!

      • Andrew J. Baldwin

        um people who have no need to learn information that has been proven for many years should have no opinion. or are you a part of the liberal left that screams “don’t confuse me with the facts my mind is made up”?

        • Kate

          I used google translate but it isn’t working?

          • IndianCowboy

            Kate, it’s called “Censorship.” First China. Now US. Get used to it. LOL.

          • Kate

            Oh, I just meant the kid needs to learn better English, sorry for the confusion.

          • chamuiel

            are you a word cop?

          • Justin Taylor

            Are you a jackass?

          • chamuiel

            you require a translator, and a keeper.

      • sreynolds

        LOL snopes? Really???? LMAO

      • unbridled

        Oh, what’s the matter Bunky? Has your valiant attempt at rewritting history begun to unravel? Well than, don’t forget to go and thank those progessive, common core pushing preachers, at that uneducational institution you attended for rattling your brain….

      • Sugarcane52

        Everyone knows that Snopes is a lying, distorting, God-less, liberal website. Just fact.

      • Iron Tub

        Have an other sip of koolaid there jake. Tell me , mr brainiac, with today’s technology how snopes would be able to get any information that you are not able to obtain.

      • barnesjr

        Jacob you are wrong and Snopes is a propaganda tool of the far left!

        • IndianCowboy

          They do say their name is pronounced Snoops, though, right? Is this true for all Snopes, or just the Snoop Snopes???

      • Melanie Haywood Gilbert

        Snopes is not always correct.

      • Rickey brown

        I happen to know your wrong and have a personal friend who was fear friends with Tom Wyatt they have made a park out if the area look it up doofus. Plus God used Ron to find many proofs of his exsistence many times over including the ark of the covenant soddham gammorah Red Sea crossing Canaanites burial pots etc. go watch ton videos on you tube. See if you learn anything if not you never will.
        If your a athiest then go watch kent hovind and sciences worst enemy. They hate kent he’s smarter than they are And probes it many times over.

      • pysco

        Were you there, and did you see it. ?

      • David Hoyle

        Jacob, do more research before counting on snopes, they are a liberal couple sitting at home in their pajamas using google search and supporting our liar in chief

        • Steve Manno

          David Mikkelson was a registered Republican before starting snopes, he changed to independent afterward. That’s a fact. Do with it what you will.

          • chamuiel

            there are r.i.n.o.’s who claim to be republican.

            do with it what you will.

          • Elizabeth

            we know that to be true and hopefully we will oust them in 2014, hopefully we can get a somewhat clean vote in 2016 not like 2012

        • chamuiel

          hey, that is what kate uses, google.

      • mperkins2

        The Ark was found a few years back by Ron Wyatt.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8qxLgxHoH0

      • DWontheplains

        Snopes has been discredited for producing any truth. Wake up and smell the Communism.

      • ort

        Snopes. Hmmmm. The liberal left website. No thanks!

      • chris warner

        Hahaha. You said snopes.

      • Lisa Thrasher Ferris

        Someone needs to write a SNOPES article about SNOPES. They have been proved to be wrong on MULTIPLE occasions.

      • http://www.myspace.com/dxrinc DXRINC

        Snopes – that Athiest George Soros funded fish wrap

      • http://www.Thinkerton.org/ OutThnk

        It is just a bunch of people trying to mix science with fantasy. It by real science is a natural formation.

      • realbadger

        lol! You’re citing a well-settled debunked site as declaring something as debunked…

      • Liza Aanor

        snopes can not be trusted, they are no longer accepted as verification

      • John

        Did you say Snopes? Or did you mean Chris Mathews?
        Or did I hear you say Jay Carney?

        ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

      • ligersaurus

        Right. Must be the ancient wreckage of a nailed-together, wooden, zombie alien space ship.

      • [email protected]

        Snoopes is one of the biggest packs of liars in existence right now. I would expect them to ‘debunk’ this. They always ‘debunk’ anything that may show truths the communists (demonicRats) do not want to be known. For instance that ‘The Kenyan’ was born in Kenya. They ‘debunk’ that too, in spite of mountains of evidence including his own words recorded in numerous media for YEARS, until someone apparently whispered in his ear that he would not be eligible to be president if he continued telling the truth about that.

      • Kent2012

        thank you santa

      • IndianCowboy

        Jacob, what makes a couple of liberals from CA the ultimate authority? Look up the word “scoffer” sometime. Google search the firsthand-eye-witness speech of Kitty Werthman (holocaust survivor) and read their response to it.
        “Liberalism equals atheism, and enforced atheism equals communism.” —Alexander Solzhenitsyn.
        “Here ye, the godless are the dull and the dull are the damned.” —E. E. Cummings.

      • Johnnie Watkins

        Answer me this Jacob, who Snopes, Snopes?

      • John

        Really?

        That’s like saying that Obama is legally eligible to be the President. When there is literally a mountain of evidence and personal accounts to prove he is not a Natural Born
        citizen and is illegally occupying the White House.

      • USARetired

        If you believe everything Snopes says, you also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!

        • chamuiel

          waih a minute, don’t put santa claus and the easter bunny in the same sentence as snopes. that is an insult to santa claus and the easter bunny.

          next, you will be going after the great pumpkin.

      • chamuiel

        And you take snopes as a credible source?

        really?

      • Henry Bevis

        Snopes has been found to be in the back pocket of a few people that have plenty of money…..George Soros….for one. I have quit taking snopes word for anything. I also
        have a good friend that went to visit with Ron Wyatt after he got back from these trips to where the Ark is said to be. He came home as an absolute believer in what Wyatt had to say. Wyatt also had some artifacts that he had brought home.

      • Elizabeth

        um I have discovered that Snopes is a leftist group I no longer believe some things they say

        • Justin Taylor

          What if there were other sites that said it was fake? Would that be okay? Would that be proof?

          • Elizabeth

            not to me, you can believe anything you want to. I believed it when they found it the first time haven’t seen anything to prove different.

          • Justin Taylor

            If you don’t ever look the other direction, the view will always remain the same.

          • John

            If you don’t look another direction? Justin, have you? You seem to be looking outward for all your discovery. Could it be that there really is a higher power that wants us to connect with it for knowledge unseen in the material world. Knowledge implanted in the very fabric of our being, our being consisting of energy and information (intelligence) or consciousness? By the way, I say “could it be” as a way of asking you to look with an open mind which requires a conscious attempt to comprehend on a level beyond what can be explained within the confines of written or spoken language. If you can’t go there, your understanding is truly limited and will never get beyond logic which is based only on what is believed to be known.

          • Justin Taylor

            John – if I don’t believe in a higher power of any type – WHY would I look for one? But if you must know – I was raised catholic, a small town, with catholic parents, etc. The difference between me and most of these people is that when somebody told me something or I read it in a book, I never stopped questioning. Why? Because ultimately, what I believe is my responsibility. So many people are told what they believe since birth, reinforced and reinforced over and over again by society. Most never stop to truly consider what it is they are being told to believe, and what that really means. You asked “Have I looked?” Of course – I was forced to. You ask if I’ve looked inside myself – where do you think I found my answers?

            My mind has always been open. But I’ll never believe in some higher being or higher power. Well, I do believe it’s real, but it’s not the higher power most here are believing it is. Church is just another form of government. I’m an individual – I’ll live my life according to what I feel is right, and I’ll never stop learning, or questioning. You can say my understanding will always be limited – but I think it’s quite the opposite – by opening my eyes, I will never be limited in my understanding again.

          • John

            Justin, you do believe its real but not the higher power you felt the church was interpreting ‘for’ you. I understand. I too grew up catholic but left 35 yrs. ago but never stopped believing something there had to be real. in fact it goes much deeper than anything I have read with an imprimatur on it. If the church or some within actually understands truth then for some reason, perhaps control, they are not sharing. Because you believe it’s real you are still open to find the source and what it really is and you may have already but most others can only quantify what you believe to be real in the terms they can understand with the language of the church. Perhaps one day all will see as above-so below and as without- so within. The fingerprint of infinity lies within the smallest particle of the finite.

          • Justin Taylor

            John – I honestly do not believe in a higher power. I do believe that life outside our planet will be found – just a matter of time – and I’m quite certain I have more faith in that belief than I do of any higher power, or at least any type of higher spiritual power.

          • John

            Yes Justin, I too believe life outside our planet will be found and there is more in ancient scripture to support that than to debunk it. However I also believe that any life outside our planet would be from the same source as whatever is responsible for our own existence. If that life has intelligence it will be either searching for its source or be eager to share knowledge of it with us, Unless they are as depraved as we are and attempt to destroy us when they find us much as the powers that currently control our planet are trying to do.

          • Tuff Guy

            If only you had made this comment and left it at that.

      • Elizabeth

        you didn’t read far enough, go to the bottom of the page if you believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God then you will believe the arc is real and it was discovered

      • spatcher

        OH-MY-GOD! Someone that still believes Snopes does not have a hidden agenda.

      • justdooit

        Snopes is a liberal bent organization…what do you expect from seculars?

      • Joseph

        Snopes is funded by George Soros, if there was ever an anti christian individual it is he. Snopes is an anti truth propaganda arm of the faaaar left and totally unrelaible.

      • Patrick Murphy

        Jacob you cannot really use anything from snopes and say as a matter of fact as they have been proven to be false many times.I ask you to look for better sources of information than snopes.This evidence is very overwelming and tends to make a believer out of you with their facts and tests.

      • GaboonViper67

        Sorry, buddy, but Snopes is not an authority. They base many things on their own bias and that bias has been revealed, quite some time ago, to favor secular explanations when it comes to matters of God and faith. And, Snopes has been debunked themselves more than once.

      • SOCIALISM-MUST-GO!

        sure……you just keep telling yourself that.

      • Roy Mallmann

        snopes is financed and run by George Soros so I would not believe anything in it. Research that or better yet, ask Snopes about their connections to George Soros.

      • Dominic De Falco

        Too many people believe in false information by snopes. They are nothing more than a husband and wife team with their own opinion! If you believe everything they say, then you are no better than a Democrat voter!

      • Ronald Reiman

        Your article proves nothing. A Californian Universty says it is not but they have not been to the site, Ron Wyatt has been starting in the 1970′s. turkey accepts that the site is genuine and has built a visitors centre nearby, so it is a question of who do you believe, scientists who cant be bothered going there or someone who was there.

      • Jared Michael Sharp

        Oh and we all know snopes never lies!

      • Jean Robertson

        Who goes to Snopes, anymore?

      • Rhonda Hunt

        once again we have an expert,who points us to snopes.com as his source of information,and of course snopes knows all,snopes gives opinions,they are not scientist,nor are they always correct,what makes you think that snopes has the low down on the ark or anything else for that matter,I find information on line,that is often incorrect and unreliable if you follow it out to the end.—-Jim Hunt

      • Daniel from TN

        And you believe what Snopes says because……….?

      • Neena Lane

        Just so you’re aware so you don’t look like a noob… Snopes is ran by two left winged nut jobs from the pacific west. Their “facts” like most left winged sources are based on agenda, not truth. They are NOT a credible “final word” on what is true or not true…

      • Lawman561

        I hate to tell you this but SNOPES is run by a husband and wife out of their house. They’re both registered Democrats. Google Progressive Bias.

      • Brian Phillips

        Snopes? Really? A Left Wing front group created to discredit any form of news the Left disagrees with? Really? Point me in the direction of their archaeological dig so I can see these “facts.”

      • Dave Henry

        Snopes, are you effin’ kidding?

      • SJ K

        they’re lying. seems like they have never been there on the site. people will never win if they go against the Word of God. It’s in the Bible. So it’s the truth. this article seems shallow. if they wanna convince people, they needa do better than that. But, they just can’t, you know. It’s all been proven, and now all the atheist doing whatever possible to distort the truth. only weak people do that.

  • Tess46

    I pretty much feel like a dunce. I knew that there was something on that mountain but I had no idea that it was investigated. I thought the Turkish government banned any investigation. Great info.

    • Bryan McDonald

      Yes they did ban anyone going in the area circa the 80′s (give or take) Declared it an active combat zone or something. Which has curtailed much investigation. You are right though, I had no idea they did actual excavation. Very exciting.

    • RLM357

      Tess46: I too was of the same understanding. I recall reading a long article that stated that western Archeologists were forbidden to explore the site as it was a Militry Installation. This from our secular Medias. Now I am beliving that these facts were deliberately witheld from us. AGAIN the Bible is proven correct. Remember the sand that covered the Sphinx in Egypt? When the surrounding lands were excavted the sand was identified as Deep SEA SAND.. Hmmmm… Merry CHRISTMAS to ALL. ~Rick Magee, “MOLON LABE”

      • CharLiDog

        RLM357, you are such a typical theist. Spewing whatever you think sounds good, believing any claim. The Sphinx was built long after your mythical flood supposedly took place. You’re ignorant of facts, yet you rant like you know the subject inside out. I’d be surprised if you have ever read your own holy book on your own.
        Your claims are highly subject to question. You should be prepared to source every claim you make.There was no flood. Again, claims of the buybull being correct are incorrect.

        • DrSique

          Apparently, you are the ignorant one, Dog. Scientists, led by Dr. Robert Schoch have dated the Sphinx to a much earlier time using hard data, not Scripture. The doctor is a reknowned geologist and used his knowledge and experience to show that the Egyptian artifacts on the Giza Plateau are most likely far older than previously estimated. Don’t take my word for it, Google the man and learn something.

          • CharLiDog

            I accept the scientific process as the best means to knowledge about reality. Your Dr. needs to pass the same rigors as everyone else.
            Either way, we know the flood didn’t happen. Contrary to many theist Neanderthals, we actually know quite a lot. Think of a line between living in trees and enlightenment. The entire population is on this line. But we’re not all at the same spot. There is a bell curve. Theists are are on the end closer to the trees.

          • DrZarkov99

            Who is the “we” you refer to? Is it the editorial “we”, meaning a collective opinion, or the royal “we”, since Atheism is essentially a form of self-worship? Your “we” certainly doesn’t include the scientific community.

            Based on numerous scientific accounts, including the Black Sea explorations of Robert Ballard (finder of the Titanic shipwreck) indicate that there is significant evidence that a natural dam in the area of the Bosporus Strait burst sometime within the existence of modern humans (possibly between 8,000-6,000 BC).

            The Black Sea was originally a fresh water lake, with a significantly lower level than the neighboring Mediterranean. When the Bosporus dam broke, the result was probably the biggest flood in human memory, wiping out any lakeside human communities. Since the event most likely took place before the invention of human written records, the only historic record would have been in the form of oral legend, which eventually found its way into the scripture of numerous religions.

            Whether or not a supernatural creator exists remains a matter of faith, with some more passionate about the “yes” or “no” side, but ignorant statements claiming science is on one side or the other do not help your side of the argument. Science, in the form of archaeology, has, if anything, reinforced the image of at least part of Judaeo-Christian scripture as having some historical basis, with recent discoveries of a water distribution system of underground tunnels and reservoirs in Israel confirming the description in Old Testament scripture.

          • CharLiDog

            I’m not disputing when it was written. But the adventures of Spider Man takes place in New York. Doesn’t mean he’s real. Were we “created” as is? No, we most certainly were not. Was there a world flood. No, there most assuredly was not. Is the Earth 10,000 years old? Don’t be ridiculous.
            Science doesn’t remotely support any religion. As we learn more, it disproves them. Just like lightning isn’t thunderbolts thrown by a god. It’s called faith because it’s not knowledge. Look up the definition then look up gullible.
            Let’s talk about your god. He condones stoning children, the reason when he condones it doesn’t really matter. Do you have a criteria which when met, is punished by stoning the child?

          • Randy Cadmus

            Science does not disprove intelligent design. If you argue in the affirmative… Your an idiot.

          • CharLiDog

            (First rule of the net, no mistakes when “you’re” calling someone an idiot. Just razzin ya. I used ‘too’ instead of ‘to’ in a post where I claimed I make few mistakes. It happens.)
            The evolution debate is over. As for ID, just look at us for an example of poor design. Our hearts are too small and wear out too fast, we breath and eat through the same hole (killing several hundred every year), our vision is very limited, our fun parks are next to waste treatment. You’re just slapping labels on with no criteria being met.
            Now, is there a context by which stoning a child is moral?

          • Guest

            When did God tell us to stone children? Don’t mistake something man decided to do with what God told us to do…And to answer your question I guess it would be considered moral at the same time it would be moral to stone an adult and for the same offenses.

          • CharLiDog

            I’ve already posted a couple verses. And there are more. Just google “buybull stone children.” Or look at how many kids were killed in the flood, or the firstborn of Egypt for kids your god killed directly. Try reading your holy book. It’s full of barbaric stuff like this.
            Why does your god need a throne? Does he get tired of standing? A throne means there must be gravity in heaven. Since your god lights his place with a futuristic source known as candles, there must be oxygen there too. And notice that your god uses powerful, futuristic weapons; like chariots and swords. The whole thing is laughable.

          • Heath Martin

            its fine with me, don’t believe it. Jesus told me not to cast my pearls before swine….so…i won’t, good day.

          • CharLiDog

            Stoning kids is fine with you? Your god killing kids is fine with you? So what criteria makes stoning children moral and acceptable? (Your god’s criteria is very low for stoning. Picking up sticks on the wrong day meets his criteria. Barbaric.) So are you as moral as your god? Should people EVER be stoned for picking up sticks?
            Why can only a couple of you try to defend your cult? The buybull says you should defend your beliefs when asked. Seems your buybull plays both sides of the street, making it useless as a guide for anything.

          • Kay Briskey

            Does anyone know whether CharLiDog approves of the current heathen practice of murdering unborn innocents in the womb? He has a fixation on children stoned thousands of years ago. But, what of NOW?

          • CharLiDog

            I’m a man. I’ll never have to make a decision about an abortion.
            Your god is timeless. He commanded people to stone children for disobeying. That law is still in effect. That’s F’d up. The solution to his faulty product was to kill and entire world of children (a horrific death). He made Pharaoh say no so he could kill the first born of Egypt. Your god concept is a monster. You worship that concept.

          • Kay Briskey

            ‘tiz true! Our God is timeless. He will be here for ever. Man on earth, however lasts only so long. Generations come and go …… and oh, how our minds change! We don’t live in caves anymore. Our armies have no use for catapults, longbows or battle axes; we don’t fear having our souls snatched during a sneeze, nor do women today feel compelled to cover their knees.
            Whatever man does, God goes along with, and will until the trumpet is heard in the air high above. Throughout the ages, God has made adjustments, according to the demands or changes. When OT Samuel was quite old, and made his two sons judges to replace him to rule over the Israelites, the Israelites demanded a king instead, as the two sons were wicked. Samuel prayed to God for the right decision for he was displeased:
            “And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods (they were wicked, too), so do they also unto thee.” I Samuel chapter 8. Thus, the Israelites got a king. That’s how kings started.

            Re: your not exactly correct interpretation; thus, your obsession with the OT law of stoning incorrigible children, God DOES observe/listen to/heed/etc., the changing minds of generations, and is not beyond making changes. Another example is God’s dialogue with Abraham re: the destruction of Soddom. God said he would destroy the city and Abraham pleaded for Soddom. Genesis 18: 23-33; Genesis 19:14-26

          • CharLiDog

            Whatever man does, God goes along with,

            How true. Why do you think that is? Your timeless god can have his mind changed. Did you know he can’t beat iron chariots? Look it up. But in the end, no matter how much you try, you will never make an argument that stoning children is moral. And your god commanded it. The reason I keep bringing this up is you keep dancing around admitting that I am correct. Concede the truth. But you can’t. Admitting what you know is true would collapse your delusion. Your god is immoral, a sadist, a killer of children. That isn’t perfection. So much for your dogma, Napoleon.
            How long will you deny the contradictions in your logic? Your tell yourself your god loves people, but he commanded a father to kill his son, and another to kill his daughter. He horrifically killed an entire world of innocent children. Even as a story, it’s just evil. How can you see all those atrocities, and still lie to yourself and everyone else? You’re not Napoleon. Accept the evidence you can see with your own eyes.
            I can quote scripture, you can’t. It’s meaningless to me. As much as the qur’ap is to you.

          • Kay Briskey

            “Look it up. But in the end, no matter how much you try, you will never make an argument that stoning children is moral”.
            Believing what you want is your choice, CharLi. So we don’t agree. Accept it!

          • CharLiDog

            People like me don’t have beliefs, we have knowledge. And listen to yourself, Napoleon, you just said that you find stoning children to be moral. Stoning children, Napoleon. There is no doubt, you’re in a barbaric, blood sacrifice cult and you’re a immoral person. Congratulations.
            Get used to being called on your immorality. You can’t hide your evil and sadistic beliefs behind a cross anymore. You are exposed, Napoleon. And we’re just getting started.

          • Kay Briskey

            “People like me don’t have beliefs….”
            People like me have beliefs based upon truths, not assumptions; the best foundation for acquiring knowledge and a sound mind.
            “There is no doubt, you’re in a barbaric, blood sacrifice …..”
            Based on your obsession with an OT law that ended 2000 years ago?
            “Get used to being called on your immorality…..”
            Sigh!

          • God

            Don’t stone children – I just added that for comic effect. I didn’t think the idiots…errrrr…masses would actually believe it. Sorry. My bad.

          • DrZarkov99

            Where, in what I wrote, did I claim to be an adherent of any religion? I’ve been a practicing scientist long enough (over 50 years) to be aggravated whenever I see anyone on either side of the theological debate to claim “science” supports their view. Science is about discovery, and we find new, amazing things in a neverending chain of events. It is not “settled”. It is not about “consensus”.

            Science is about challenging theory, developing postulates and hypotheses, and determining which ones are the closest to explaining what we witness. When someone treats even a solid theory, like evolution, as though it was holy scripture and inviolate, they have stopped being a scientist.

            Even scientists who don’t enter the theological debate have had angry exchanges, backed by their faith in mathematics, over whether or not the universe as we see it today was created in a “Big Bang”, or has always (however you measure that) existed. If you think you understand quantum physics, it’s obvious you don’t.

            If all of that acceptance of the unknowable scares you, there are two paths to follow: either you accept the unexplainable, and become an Agnostic; or you develop a faith that helps you believe there’s some inviolate system behind the mystery. The reason Atheists are usually angry is that they want to demand that others accept their faith, much as any other fervent religionist.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            Hear, hear! I call consensus the “C” word. [That really sets off my liberal friends and their acquaintances.] If you don’t mind, I’d like to share this lay person’s lifetime (I’m now 72) gathering of thoughts on “What Is God?” (Read, or Ignore, if you wish, of course.)

            I have said the following before and then, in reply to several, severely tolerance-challenged, intellectual atheist’s, I had to post a reply. Both follow:

            Just so the “Self Anointed Purveyors of ‘Truth”, don’t get their jammies in a wrinkle:

            So many divisive questions, so many divisive answers. When I was 17, having been raised to understand that “You don’t have to be in a building, to believe in God”, I decided that “God is Energy, after all, It’s everywhere”. Now, some five plus decades later, scientists in the field of “Quantum Physics/Mechanics”, with “String Theory”, have postulated that there indeed may be vibrating “Strings” of energy everywhere. Not only in interstellar, but intergalactic space as well. The other half of my postulation rests on the question: “What is thought?”. In it’s purest form, it is merely an inexplicable bit of energy. If that is also true, then that, I believe, coupled with string theory, is the mind of God. How presumptuous is mankind to believe he can truly understand the mind, let alone interpret the will of God. If I may quote Puck: “What fools these mortals be”. Beyond that, you may ask: “Does he believe there is a God?” Yes, I do. Well then, “Does he believe Jesus (of Nazareth) is the Son of God?” Again. Yes, I do, as is every (hu)man a child of God. Well. How then does he explain all the different names of God and ways of worshiping Him? As Tom Sullivan (when he was still broadcasting on the radio from Sacramento) once related, he has an Egyptian friend who noted: “There is only One God, but many different ways of worshiping Him”. “Intelligent Design” came up and how silly it is (for believing in unprovable precepts such as “Gods Hand Created the Heavens and the Earth”, which is based on unprovable, blind Faith). And this from the same crowd who believe (as do I) that the universe was created from a “Cosmic Egg” that came from they know not where, yet just was (but wasn’t for very long), that suddenly went (”Big) Bang!” and voila! We are (eventually) born. No “Leaps of Faith” there. Nope, none at all. Oh yes, their “Resurrection Theology?” “Entropy!” That’s where the energy of the “Big Bang” eventually “runs out of steam”, if you will, and everything collapses back in on itself and, “Guess What?”, it starts all over again – maybe. And they talk about “A Leap of Faith?” indeed. “What Fools We Mortals Be?” “You Betcha!”

            [The Reply to the "Tolerance-Challenged" Atheists follows]: It is strange to me that so many pass through this mortal coil with blinders on. What is as plain as the nose on my face (and a proud proboscis it is indeed) is that I’m merely trying to point out that because I was raised to believe that “You don’t have to be in a building to believe in God” (even though my middle name comes from the French for Christmas because my parents met singing carols on a Christmas Eve), “The only thing I have against ‘Organized Religion’ is that it’s so ‘Organized’ ” (and you can quote me on that). Because my father had a beautiful baritone and was always in great demand to sing at various congregations, I would sometimes go with him to rehearsals and got to see the good church folk without their “Sunday”, or “Church Face” on. Which means I came to the realization that almost all overtly religious people were all coming from the viewpoint that only their particular interpretations were the “One, True Way” regardless of what those otherwise perfectly good “Church Folk” down the street, and around the corner believed. (Sort o’ like Northern Ireland, or, and more immediately, the “Religion of Peace” vs. the rest of humanity today.)

            As to the science and cosmology of discovering not only the “how”, but, and to me the equally important of “why” the universe works: In my late adolescence and early teens, I was reading Bertrand Russell and Fred Hoyle amongst several others and was opening a wider view of man’s place in the universe in myself. It was a time when discoveries seemed to be coming at a furious pace: “Big Bang, “No Bang”, “Steady State”, oops, “Big Bang” again, “Entropy”, et cetera … . Then came Sputnik and the Space Race was on. Then came the questions: “What is God?”, followed by, “Where is Heaven?”; then: “How big and how old is the universe and how long will it last?”. To me, it was a logical conclusion to meld the two. Everyone praises Einstein’s genius (especially for his era), yet gloss over his spirituality. Especially in his later years.* It strikes me odd that so many, the “Learned” of our day pooh, pooh the very concept of something greater than themselves. Usually they pause for the briefest of moments, drawing a deep breath of of something they cannot see (yes, yes, yes, I know it can be felt, measured, etc.), letting out the weariest of sighs, and then proceed to talk down to the rest of we mere mortals, explaining how what they cannot prove nor explain fully and completely is “The One True Way” to look at the universe.

            We of today look back several centuries and chuckle at the learned fools of the day who were fervently arguing about “How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?”. Who indeed can predict how the learned of a few centuries hence will view us? In other words, everyone has blinders. It’s up to each individual to open his own eyes and see. Curiosity, after all, is in Man’s Nature. Whether it’s the scientist or the hunter, we all want to know “What’s on the other side”. We should never stop asking. We should never stop searching. Most importantly, we should realize that we will never find all the answers because there’ll always be another question to answer, another hill to climb and another river to cross.

            * Well, since I wrote the forgoing, it appears that the “Big Bang” is once again relegated to the trash bin of formerly iron clad “Scientific Consensus”.

            ** Sir Fredrick Hoyle’s “Steady State Theory”, by the way, postulated that stars (and, by extension, galaxies) simply “Appeared” to fill the void left between them by a steadily expanding universe. I.e.: “Think of a balloon’s surface with dots on it. As it expands, the distance between the dots grows further and further apart. I believe that new ones simply appear to fill the void between them”; (May I suggest Googling: [BBC Universe - Steady State theory challenged the Big Bang]).

            By the way: “Intelligent Design” doesn’t challenge the “How” of the universe, just the “Why”.

            *** At the time of writing these words, I was not aware of the exact quotes. Here is an excerpt from a Time Magazine article dated: Thursday, April 05, 2007. Quote: ” … Einstein did, however, retain from his childhood religious phase a profound faith in, and reverence for, the harmony and beauty of what he called the mind of God as it was expressed in the creation of the universe and its laws. Around the time he turned 50, he began to articulate more clearly–in various essays, interviews and letters–his deepening appreciation of his belief in God, although a rather impersonal version of one. One particular evening in 1929, the year he turned 50, captures Einstein’s middle-age deistic faith. He and his wife were at a dinner party in Berlin when a guest expressed a belief in astrology. Einstein ridiculed the notion as pure superstition. Another guest stepped in and similarly disparaged religion. Belief in God, he insisted, was likewise a superstition.”

            “At this point the host tried to silence him by invoking the fact that even Einstein harbored religious beliefs. “It isn’t possible!” the skeptical guest said, turning to Einstein to ask if he was, in fact, religious. “Yes, you can call it that,” Einstein replied calmly. “Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious. … .”

            As a dear, but now departed, friend used to say: “Great minds travel in the same rut”. (Even yours and mine.)

          • DrZarkov99

            Other well-respected figures, like Benjamin Franklin, arrived at Einstein’s conclusion. Deism is that core instinct that remains when all of the human self-importance is stripped away.

            I was requested to leave a major organized religion when I raised questions about the faith that I felt contradicted the foundation of its belief system. I was 12 years old at the time, and spent the next 20 years examining as many other organized religions as I could, to see if I could find a spiritual community. I was always disappointed by the negative elements inserted into belief systems by humans who claimed to somehow have the inside track on what God is thinking.

            I remained firmly convinced, as did Einstein, that there was a force behind the mystery of the universe, and that the cycle of creation was proof that the force (call it Deity, if you like) was a positive one. My purpose, as best as I could understand it, was to do as much as I could to contribute to improving my small part of this awesome universe.

            That, I suppose, is the best explanation of Deist faith.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            Thank you for responding. I’ve spent a lifetime calling myself a christian, using the meaning that existed before the “Politically Correct” started using it as a disparagement for those who believe in God. (They also use the term “Deist” in describing some of the prominent founding fathers as a means of driving a wedge against the fact that most of them were religious christians of various denominations who incorporated their views into the founding principles of our nation. Guess I’ll have to start calling myself a “Classical Deist”, much as I seem to have to call myself a “Classical Liberal” which is now known as a “Constitutional Conservative.” Be well and never stop searching for “The Truth”, no matter how fleeting it may prove to be.

          • DrZarkov99

            The corrupted definition of the PC “Deist” implies a belief in the “great mechanic” who constructed the universe we live in, and left everything after that to us, to do good or evil as we chose. There may be some who think that way, but I doubt many who think of themselves as Deist would agree with that portrayal. My personal belief is that each of us should consider ourselves as God’s agents, with a responsibility to do our best to make “miracles” happen for the good of all. If there is an existence of the spirit beyond the end of our physical body, I would posit that Hell would be the regret we would feel after realizing the opportunities we wasted, and any evil actions we took.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            That seems to be a a fair way to look at it. I would further assert that as a part of that “Responsibility” would be that, if faced with what is commonly known as “Pure Evil”, one should feel compelled to become the “Back Hand of God”, so to speak.

          • Kay Briskey

            Dr.Zarkov: a lot of wisdom in what you’ve said. The great question re: the Judeo-Christian Bible seems to be, “is it true or just a book of fairy tales”? I opt for the first as there is quite clearly a grand design for man that began in the garden of Eden and ends long after, in the Kingdom of God.

            The design is brought forth from generation to generation, following the first sin and expulsion from Eden, which was God’s first kingdom. The story is told by many different Biblical voices, including prophets selected by God, who saw in them true devotion to Him.

            One theme throughout is man’s failure to obey God, and man’s cursing God for the troubles that comes from stepping outside of God’s law, which is a natural and unavoidable occurrence; even though God’s law, if kept, insures order and harmony in the world. Another theme is prophecy being made, and prophecy eventually happening exactly as foretold.

            God’s magnificent story of man is told in the two parts of the Bible: the barbaric mind of the OT gave way to the teachings of Jesus, whose birth fulfilled the first prophecy made of his birth; made by God Himself to Satan, after the first sin: “I will put enmity between these and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” (Genesis 3:15). All prophecies on the birth of Jesus were fulfilled.

            Jesus with his little band of disciples could not reach the “stiff-necked” Jews. So, God, through a dream reached Peter with the new awareness of going to the gentiles and offering to them, salvation. His focus would be on Gentiles for the next 2000 years; for the Jews, salvation would be put on hold until the end times. The Jews that will eventually win salvation are called the remnant, and it will happen, I believe in the first half of the tribulation.

            That God’s first experiment in Eden failed, called for another try, outside the perfect world of Eden, where is found much for making it often a hostile place. I look upon it as God’s proving ground for individuals who must suffer through life’s trials and tribulations, with the free will to accept or reject God’s law. Thus, it is a proving ground for entering an eternal kingdom that would never know sin, and is offered to all.

            Jesus taught the keys for entrance into the kingdom. I believe I was born for this particular time on God’s time line as that is where I believe he wanted me. Scripture says he knows us in the womb. He knows our abilities, how our mind and talents will develop throughout life, how family circumstances and countless other life experiences will affect us, and whether the summation of our life’s aspects will prepare us for an end time purpose. Of all living today, who among us is pleasing God in our preparation? That thought alone can bring a paradigm shift in the thought process. This, in a nutshell. There is so MUCH more to this grand design.

            With the way you TWO think, I would be honored to have a word back. Had I not read what each of you has said, this would not have been written …… at least not yet.

          • Kay Briskey

            I now find myself responding to TWO straight arrows, and very much enjoying the experience. DrZarkov99, it pleasures me to add that Jesus came to show a new way of thinking, “love one another and forgive”. By so doing, we offer to God the best of ourselves as we are living our lives….. I quote you, “as God’s agents, with a responsibility to do our best to make “miracles” happen for the good of all.” Thank you so very much for ‘hitting one in for God’!

          • Kay Briskey

            Myron, hats off to a splendid statement that I’m sure not many living today could have made. In the muddled masses of today’s thinkers, yours is straight arrow; giving evidence you were educated under the old system. Or, you were raised by old system parents who made sure your mind did not get perverted by later haters of God’s word. My education came from the old system that still offered quality education, and a Quaker, Latin and English teacher mother, whose father and grandfather were Quaker preachers. At home and at school, I was among the fortunate and that has made all the difference in the world.

          • Kristin Polk

            Beautifully and intelligently written.

            My rut runs along the more conservative thread of Biblical Christianity. I believe this by faith. That is not something that can be scientifically verified.

            My concern regarding this article is more from the scientific analysis of findings. Scientists must objectively analyze information they gather to verify or disprove their hypothesis. It seems to me this is not happening here. If a scientist found laminated wood, or nails, or aluminum and titanium in the ground, their first objective thought would not be: “Wow, they had a lot more technology back when the Ark was built than we realized”. Their first thought would be: “Well, this was built more recently than what we hoped to find. This technology was not available when the Ark was built”.

            I, as much as any Christian, would love to find the Ark. It would be wonderful to “prove” to the world our faith has merit. I would only want this to happen if the highest standards are used to interpret the data. It is unwise to “adjust” the interpretation to fit your hypothesis. I prefer to stand on truth. Truth (or faith) does not need proof.

          • Kay Briskey

            I can not begin to tell you how much I enjoyed reading this, and chuckling throughout. Your intelligence, knowledge, wit, and way with words are exquisitely combined. I just re-read it. It is a classic. Have you any books out, or do you intend to have one out? If this is typical of your writing, which I have no reason to believe it isn’t, I’d treasure a book by and signed by you. Interestingly, as I finish this, into my mind pops…. why weren’t you in my class, when we were being educated back in the forties and fifties? I’m feeling gypped!

          • God

            Not quite. I agree with most, right up until the last paragraph. There is no one reason why atheists are ‘angry’ – but it’s certainly fueled by the christian superiority complex. Being that christians are brainwashed since birth – it’s not remarkable that they stick to their beliefs in the face of any and all scientific evidence that would point to a contrary viewpoint.

            The psychological aspects of religion and religious practices are a science all their own – the constant reinforcement of a ‘heavenly father’, the ‘eternal afterlife’, the submitting to authority (priests, rabbis, pastors, bishops, etc.). Those feelings are then ‘fashioned’ or ingrained to individuals through sensory hypnosis – touch, sound, even taste.

            They are not born with these beliefs. No, they have to be taught. Add in the fact that babies are born all over the world and they are taught whatever it is their parents were taught. That in and of itself is reason to believe that religion in general is a product of environment or a community effort to come to some consensus on what people should or should not believe. And if it’s a product of environment – then religion is and of itself a production of man himself. A war here, a war there – just a few differences in results and you might have all been praying to a fencepost.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            ROFLMAO!!! Imagine, a Deity capable of producing it’s own “Splinter Groups”. ["Flesh of My flesh, … .", etc.]

          • Kay Briskey

            Dr.Zarkov: a lot of wisdom in what you’ve said. The great question re: the Judeo-Christian Bible seems to be, “is it true or just a book of fairy tales”? I opt for the first as there is quite clearly a grand design for man that began in the garden of Eden and ends long after, in the Kingdom of God.
            The design is brought forth from generation to generation, following the first sin and expulsion from Eden, which was God’s first kingdom. The story is told by many different Biblical voices, including prophets selected by God, who saw in them true devotion to Him.

          • linda twilley

            If anyone would take the time to research all the major civilizations of the world, they all refer to a Great Flood, as well as geological research which indicated a world wide flood did indeed happen after analyzing soil samples, they were carbon dated and these samples shown the flood occurred at the same time, Not hardly a coincidence.

          • Brownthumb

            Your claims make no sense. If there had been a worldwide flood that destroyed all life except for that on an ark, the civilizations you refer to would not have existed. They would have been wiped out and the only stories about such a flood would be identical. Also, different civilizations would not have had such wildly different gods, since they would all have been descended from Noah and his line, they would have all had the same god. Instead, the Chinese had no god stories, the Egyptians had Ra and others, the Hindu had Krishna and their multiple gods, Romans had Zeus and his lot, the Norse had Odin the all-father, Thor, Loki and that lot, Vikings had Valhalla, Native Americans had the great spirit, Aztecs had the sun god, Mayans had their bloodthirsty gods and so on. Or are you trying to say that flood stories would have been passed on but nothing about the supposed god that caused such a flood or the ark and the animals would have been carried down? That no mention of lineage survived and no records on Noah were passed on? Like I said, it makes no sense at all, and would even seem to lead towards the disbelief in the Noah story. While floods, even major floods, have happened nearly everywhere, no “worldwide” flood lasting for a year has ever happened. All life on the planet except for 10 people and 2 of each animal (even marsupials, which are never mentioned in the bible at all and only come from Australia? What about other island and region specific animals?) was not destroyed 4400 years ago because no such flood happened.

            As for your claims of soil samples showing a worldwide yearlong flood did happen, please give me references to such. All the evidence I have been able to locate states otherwise. I can find no peer reviewed geological study stating that a worldwide flood lasting a year ever happened. I would be interested in researching such claims.

          • Brian Phillips

            My guess is you believe more in Marvel Comics than you do anything real and substantial. Bet you hang out at Star Trek conventions, and sell comic books for a living, huh?

          • jeff
          • dana28

            I find it interesting that you should put so much trust in science. Before, scientists have said things that they thought to be absolute truth, and later found out were wrong. For example, they have said the atom is the absolute smallest thing, later found out once they cut one open there were things even smaller. There are plenty of other examples, and I’m not saying this to say that science is wrong. We are people who love cold hard facts and tangible truths! I agree! But at the same time, I will never say that we know all the answers that somehow people for countless centuries have missed and simply came to the same conclusion due to limited knowledge etc etc. I believe God designed our world so that we may continually learn the simple truth that man can never know all the answers and will never know everything… I would simply caution you all to not be fool-hardy enough to say that you would say that something as simple as religion is entirely preposterous.

          • CharLiDog

            Who ever said science knows everything? What a straw man.

            Religions are preposterous. And ridiculous. And disgusting. You’re in a barbaric, blood sacrifice cult. Your god is a killer of children; a monster in every way.
            I’ll ask you the same question every other theist is avoiding, is there a context where stoning a child is moral and acceptable?

          • dana28

            Fine then. I’ll answer your question: No I don’t think stoning a child is moral and acceptable. One such incident many bring up for this matter is in Deuteronomy 7 where it says “When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, for they will turn your sons away from following me to serve other gods.” To quote CS Lewis in Reflections on the Psalms, Lewis notes that “Naivety, error,
            contradiction, even … wickedness are not removed. The total result
            is not ‘the Word of God’ in the sense that every passage, in itself,
            gives impeccable science or history.” I say this not to imply errancy of Christianity, but to imply possible bible errancy. Sure, the Bible is a holy book. I have no doubt about that. But I also know that it did not literally fall out of the mouth of God as is but was rather accumulated and written by man. BUT it is INSPIRED by the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, through and though. I say this to imply that not everything in the Bible has to be taken literally. The men who wrote the books wrote them in ways so that the people could understand in our terms, such as Jesus with his many parables. The whole Bible is this way! The Bible said Earth was created by God in 6 days. We don’t know what a day is in God’s time. What if however long science has determined the Earth’s existence through creation and evolution until man is man as we normally consider him to be and were split into 6 pieces, “6 days” if you will. I would never be so ignorant as to not consider other sides and options within the context of the Bible and say my way is the only way and I’m taking everything as literally as possible, because I’m not. I am not one of the men in Plato’s cave looking at shadows on a wall and taking them as reality. I’m willing to look at both the shadows and the reality of those shadows and see what is happening.

          • Brownthumb

            The thing is, science is constantly growing and learning, searching for truth and adapting to new information.

            Religion is convinced it has all the truths, is locked into a holding pattern and cannot change or grow. Religion rejects new information and refuses to acknowledge any facts that don’t agree with it’s doctrine or dogma.

            No Atheist I’ve ever met thinks science or mankind has all the answers. Our primary answer when theist demand to know how we think everything came to be is “I don’t know”, of course the theist doesn’t know either but fills in his ignorance with “god done it” instead of searching for the actual truth. I do believe that science offers the best explanations for our universe and world with the available evidence we have to hand. There is a reason things are called theories in science, not because there isn’t evidence to back them up but because they are subject to change if new information comes to light.

          • dana28

            I really appreciate your thoughts! Considering I am not an atheist, I would be the first to admit that I don’t know the way most would think or consider when it comes to science. And the few atheists I have been able to actually get to know have believed science through and through. So thank you for enlightening me to a different take on it! I always wish to further understand where anyone stands.

          • Brownthumb

            Don’t misunderstand, I only believe in that which I have good reason and evidence to support belief in. This means that I don’t believe in the supernatural, a soul or any god, since there is no evidence to support any such beliefs. I firmly believe that the scientific method is our best way forward in learning the truths of our universe and gives the best explanations with the currently available evidence.

            On the other hand, should falsifiable evidence ever come forward that supports the existence of the supernatural, I am able to change my viewpoint at that time. I don’t think it will ever happen though.

          • dana28

            Again, I appreciate your views extremely! And to me I find it comforting to know that even if you do not currently believe in. The supernatural etc etc, you would be willing to change you stance and views if convincing evidence for you came forward. I honestly think that it is a rare quality In this day and age.

          • Shari Rhodes

            You’re really into this stoning children thing, aren’t you? You are negating the fact that this was (probably a rare practice) way, way back in the days of the Old Testament. That all came to an end, along with many other practices that were in effect during the archaic days when mankind was subjected to a different law than we are now. We are now under Jesus’ law of grace, wherein we cease practicing some of the barbarism of ancient times, and we have the option of accepting Jesus’ sacrifice, which cleanses us from all wrongdoing and enables us to spend eternity with God after our physical deaths. You don’t have to believe it, by any means. But you will be held accountable for your decision. You’re wasting your energy focusing on an archaic practice that is no longer in effect.

          • CharLiDog

            Oh, the law is still in effect, it just isn’t practiced. Since you’re missing the point, your god commanded that children be stoned. Doesn’t matter if it never happened, this is what passes as just and moral to the god you worship. It isn’t wasted energy pointing out your god is not about love.
            The only reason we need saved is because your god condemned us. For doing exactly what he knew we would do. Not even we; it was two other people. Your god isn’t much on personal responsibility. Do something bad, sacrifice an innocent life to atone. It’s barbaric. Your god is a blood lust monster.

          • Kay Briskey

            But, he sent Jesus to die on the cross for your sins. You don’t know this???????

          • CharLiDog

            A human sacrifice. Wow. You people are something else. So your god condemns us, and his solution for us to be saved is for his son/self/whatever to be killed. LOL. Just what magical power does blood have? Besides it seems to make your god happy. Nothing he likes more than the blood of something innocent being spilled. Not only a monster, but incredibly stupid your god.
            I need no atonement. I’ve done nothing that deserves eternal torture. And even if your god was real, I would not bend my knee to such an immoral monster. The devil is the good guy in your story book. He saw the megalomaniac and tried to save us from it.

          • Kay Briskey

            Every statement, every question, every exclamation in your post starting with, “a human sacrifice” gives evidence you would flunk a test on Jesus. You don’t know the Bible, CharLi. All you know is what has come down to you from a long, long line of atheists, each parroting down the line what was heard from above.
            The NT contains numerous statements of Jesus saying why the NT is under a new covenant. But, you didn’t refer to any of them; just to the one verse (Matthew 3:15) that atheists are drilled on. To better understand that verse you need to know the Greek word for “fulfill”. Jesus said nothing there regarding the old covenant. It has to do with Jesus fulfilling the Old Testament prophecy that is about him.
            My suggestion in the future is for you to realize not everyone you dialogue with regarding the Bible is ignorant of the Bible.

          • CharLiDog

            No, no, no. This is exactly what you can not get away with anymore.
            Are you thinking matt 5:17? “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Oh the irony.) Because in the very next verse, he clarifies the context pretty specifically. “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” Not a lot of room for interpretation. Well, in reality anyway. Who knows what kind of excuse you’ll make up to justify your ignoring the truth?
            What you need to face is any verse you come up with doesn’t negate this passage. The best you can do is show your buybull contradicts itself. Almost every study shows atheists know the buybull better than the theists who promote it. You need to come back to reality and not trust the propaganda passed on by you people. In typical 180 degrees off reality, you are the parrot.

          • Kay Briskey

            Is OT law still valid? Jeremiah 31:31 gives the following prophecy: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. Jeremiah is one of the major prophets.

            Isaiah 42:6: “I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.”

            From the references in my favorite Bible: “The new covenant is what we call the New Testament of the Bible, made by Christ to take the place of the law of Moses. The new covenant was not to be the same as the old, but an entirely new contract to take the place of the law of Moses.”

            I can well imagine the above reference by a Biblical authority will make no difference to you. Are you a Biblical authority?

          • CharLiDog

            I do know the buybull quite well. Napoleon, try to follow. As I explained before, you cannot negate my verses with yours. For one thing, jebus directly spoke my verses. But the main point is, all you can do is show contradiction. Your buybull plays both sides of the street.
            Here is an even greater point, you’re trying to justify why you don’t follow those laws. What you are glossing over is that those laws ever existed. They are barbaric. The NT isn’t the reason you don’t follow them, common sense and a higher morality is why. Just admit it, your god is an immoral sadistic monster. Heck, at least admit you’re in a blood sacrifice ‘religion’.
            You theists never concede any points. You just move on the next post, usually full of errors.

          • Kay Briskey

            Jesus brought a new way of thinking CharLiDog: love one another and forgive. Children raised in that type of a household have no desire to be incorrigible. That did away with the old Covenant. I keenly understand it. That is the way I was raised, and I had NO desire to rumble with the world, including with you.
            Jesus was THE master of human thought. YOU could take a lesson.

          • CharLiDog

            New way of thinking? You think your jebus coined the golden rule? Pluh-ease. I have news for you. Don’t kill, don’t steal, and treat others have been the rules of society from the first tribes.
            You keenly miss the point. You don’t get to act like your god was replaced with jebus. The father has the most power, and he told people to stone their kids.
            What does the master of human thought even mean? The guy said to sell everything and give the proceeds to the poor. He said not to worry about tomorrow, your god will provide. He told slaves to obey and masters not to beat them so hard. He said to love him and hate your family and friends. He said the genesis story was true. The guy was an idiot. I don’t take lessons from liars or idiots.
            Now I want you to concede that you are in a bronze age, innocent blood sacrifice for atonement ‘religion’. And I want you to admit your god concept has killed many, many children and babies. It’s all in your buybull, so it should be real easy to admit. If you don’t, you display your intellectual dishonesty and lack of integrity.
            I’m not going to let this slide. We have to have some kind of foundation in reality to converse. If you deny the facts of your delusion, does that mean you’re double deluded? Talk about a mental illness. I honestly think some of you should be locked up. Just like Napoleon. At the very least, you need to be kept away from children. Who knows when you’ll think your god is asking you to sacrifice a kid. It’s happened a few times already. You simply cannot be trusted with kids.

          • Kay Briskey

            Sigh! CharLi, I do think it is time you take someone else to task and uh…um…..straightened them out ….. and leave me to my …..as you’ve determined….my….um…… my delusions. I’ve determined you have a burr under your saddle. So, I’ll work on my ….um …. delusions, and perhaps, you’ll ditch the burr.

          • CharLiDog

            Are you denying that your cult’s foundational message is innocent blood must be shed for atonement? Your particular sect is based on the blood sacrifice being a human.
            Look at the twisting of logic you’re doing now. You’re denying the very foundation of your beliefs, and just glossing over that fact like it’s a natural thing to do. Simply amazing.

          • Kay Briskey

            Don’t you see, CharLi? Your first sentence reveals you have no idea what that verse is telling you. I know it sounds gruesome. But, it also has to do with salvation which Satan wants NOT for you. God’s blessings are poured out upon those who love Him. But, how can he reach you? The door of your mind has been slammed shut.

          • CharLiDog

            Which verse? I’m talking about your entire religion.You have no idea what you’re talking about.
            You like making unsubstantiated, meaningless claims. And you like to lie. Typical theist. You can’t rebut my arguments. You’re in a blood sacrifice cult, plain and simple. Expect more people like me to point that out. You don’t get to spread your lies without being called on them anymore. We have the truth. You can’t hide it. Two generations will see the end to the biggest lie ever sold.

          • Kay Briskey

            I assure you, CharLi, if I had no idea what I was talking about I would not be on this site. To answer your question as to “which verse?”, it would benefit our back and forth if you would start at the beginning of this series between you and me. It starts with your response to Shari Rhodes, that begins, “Oh, the law…….” which is five up from here. I desire, and wish you, too, to proceed carefully and not hastily, to not gum up our thought processing.

          • Brownthumb

            You obviously don’t know your bible, the laws did not end, according to Jesus himself they are in effect until both heaven and earth disappear. I don’t know about heaven, but the earth is still here. Even if the laws did pass away (which they haven’t), it’s still the same, sick, twisted being you want to call your god and worship that gave those commands. Are you saying your god can be wrong? Or make mistakes? If not, then you’re saying it’s just and moral to stone rebellious or unruly children. You’re saying that god killing all the firstborn of Egypt, despite the fact that Pharaoh was willing to let Moses and the Hebrews go until god hardened his heart and made him say no so that god could then teach him a lesson (so basically he killed the firstborn because he wanted to because according to your own holy book, it wasn’t necessary), was a good and just act?

            Like I said, it doesn’t matter that you call it an “archaic practice” and say it’s no longer in effect, the issue is that it ever was in effect at all. The issue is that you defend this sick being who would give such commands and willingly choose to follow him. The issue is that you cannot even see how wrong it is. You really should read your entire bible. That murdering god in the OT is still the god of the NT that you worship. Even if you could prove to me that he existed (which he obviously doesn’t), I would never willingly choose to worship such a being. If my choices were worship that god or burn for eternity, I’d choose to burn.

          • Shari Rhodes

            Whatever you have to say about that ‘murdering god’, He still loves you, and He gave you free reign to choose Him or not. Based on your last sentence, it appears you’ve already made your choice, which is very sad to me. Hopefully, you will someday rethink your options.

          • Brownthumb

            I was indoctrinated into Christianity from birth, reading the bible led me to begin questioning my beliefs in my teens but at that time I didn’t really have a choice but to continue with the church. At 22 I became an Atheist, I’m 47 now. I will not be “rethinking” my options. I will maintain an open mind, and if anyone can show evidence that would support the existence of a god I would then have to accept that god’s existence. As stated before though, whether I deemed such a god worthy of reverence and worship is a completely different thing. Read your bible, then see if you can honestly tell me that your god is loving despite his actions there. None of that old “no one can know the mind of god” crap, just honestly determining if those acts are anything you would condone. For me that answer is easy, I could never worship any being who advocated the slaughter of infants and tearing them from the womb to do so. I hope someday you wake up and stop blindly following such a sick cult.

          • Kay Briskey

            Shari, thanks for a simply put, well stated response that reflects your understanding of God’s word. I would urge CharLi to lay down his pistol and read it again. But, I won’t because I believe he is more interested in protecting his own stronghold of misperceptions.

          • crq

            Cool! I never heard of that about the Bosphorus (sp?)…will look it up – THX!

          • Shari Rhodes

            Someone at the University of Oklahoma put out a book some years back that showed how modern science is proving the Bible, not disproving. Wish I knew a source for this book, but it has been a long time since I saw it.

          • Stacy Brown

            Know what? You’re right, you are descended from a monkey. Too bad Darwin was wrong, he meant to say ass.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Intelligent design obviously skipped over you which science supports…

          • crq

            You have the knowledge that “the flood didn’t happen” based on ????? There are scriptures from the Vedas that are far older than the Christian Bible that talk of a time before the precession of the equinoxes…’splain that one away with a bit of logic…

          • lincolnkreifels

            you only know what youve been told and history is written by those who have won the war.

          • Debbie Peterson

            You’re wrong. The breakdown of your argument is in the DNA. The really great part about living now is that the more we uncover and discover, the more it reveals that there had to be a creator behind all of this.

          • CharLiDog

            You’re lying. Just flat out lying. All your posts are like this. Lies and bullsh!t. I have no time for you. If I notice you replying to me again, Debbie Peterson, I’ll start F’ing your god in the ass and make him give blow jobs for nickles. I love creative writing, so I’m always looking for an excuse to show off my skills. My advice; tell your lies to someone else.

          • Kristin Newman

            You are ridiculous! Show me proof. You have NO more proof of any of your claims than the opposition. You think your two year degree makes you and expert? No, fyi, you aren’t. I think your statements were stolen from others in a classroom debate. You obviously lack critical thinking skills.

          • Shari Rhodes

            Neanderthals. Hmmmmmm. You are aware that almost all populations on the planet carries Neanderthals genes? The biggest exception are the Negroid populations from sub-Saharan Africa, who did not venture out of Africa in ancient times, or mix with other races. So CharLiDog, if your ancestors weren’t from sub-Saharan Africa, you’re part Neanderthal right along with the rest of us.

        • David Reedy

          Besides all that, countless traditions ranging from Hopi, Navajo, Mayan, African, Chinese, Indonesian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek–just about every culture around the world talks of the ancient flooding. This doesn’t make me “a typical theist” of any ignorant ilk that you would imply–this just means I’ve actually lived up to your admonition and read, studies, listened, and discussed a few things with a few people. Follow your own advice and read something will you?

          • LiveWire

            Many of those civilizations existed well before the supposed flood AND have records that survived for over 10,000 years. Clearly there is some disconnect with your supposition that the flood wiped out all life on earth, save Noah’s family.

        • Rhonda Hunt

          charLiDog and were you there when the flood occurred,do you stand as a eye witness to this event,the flood would have occurred about 4400 years ago or so,should we believe your claim,where are your facts that prove there was not a world wide flood,there was a flood and the Bible is always correct.—Jim Hunt

          • TheFIsh

            There was not a world wide flood.
            Unless the Chinese were on another planet.

          • 914

            Ha ha ok..

          • Randy Cadmus

            Lol… Really bro

          • CharLiDog

            Is there a context where stoning a child is moral and acceptable?
            Do you acknowledge you are in a blood sacrifice cult/religion/whatever? Does your religion symbolically or literally participate in cannibalism and vampire-ism? Can you think of any aspect theists attribute to satanists that the xian religion is not guilty of?
            Why does your god need a throne? Why does he use candles in heaven? Why are his weapons horses and swords? Why was he defeated by iron chariots (you won’t hear this story in church, but it is in the buybull)? How can you defend the killing of an entire world of innocent children as moral in any sense? How is eternal punishment just for any crime? According to your god, just looking at a woman is enough to justify hell. And lastly, why don’t you fear Thor?
            The buybull is wrong about a great many things, and contradicts itself so much as to be useless as a guide for anything. You don’t get to lie without being called on it. That’s why your religion is dying. You can only shelter your kids from the truth for so long. They will eventually hear the truth, and odds are, they’ll accept it. And they will look at you with disdain for the lies and immorality you taught them. And it will be much deserved.

        • Lawren Downing

          Is it me or is Atheism becoming a religion in itself? lol Truth is there is more evidence of God than there is against the existence of God and that burns up these Atheists to no end. lol If you are a non believer then why read the article? Why comment? Why go out of your way to insult and discredit based on no facts whatsoever? People have a right to believe in what they want to believe in it’s called the Constitution and nobody is pushing anything on you. You came into this discussion you weren’t dragged into it.

          • CharLiDog

            You people are just upset that we are no longer quiet, and there are a lot more of us than you have been told. We’re not letting you get away with your lies, your redefining words to mean their opposite, or your distortions. The stakes are too high. We need to move up this hill and you people are pulling the wrong way.
            The actual truth is, the are mountains of evidence against any holy book being correct and zero evidence of any god. And the evidence shows how and why religions were created. The truth is, I have museums and universities and libraries around the world full of evidence to back up my knowledge, and you have a two inch thick book of the shelf next to Thor and Zeus to justify your beliefs.
            And you lie again about nobody pushing your religion. But if you think they shouldn’t, then you must support removing ‘god’ from our money and pledge.

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            I truly hope you will change your beliefs before it’s too late. Christians don’t want anyone to spend eternity in hell. There was a man in my town that was an athiest. He denied God and Jesus Christ until the end of his life. As he was taking his last breaths, he began cursing God. At that moment he knew he had been wrong, but it was too late to save him from a burning hell.

          • Janod

            Did you see him burn in hell or has he let you know since?? How do you have proof that this has happened. Athiests are not bad people why would your peace loving,compassionate, ever forgiving God wish anyone harm? Isn’t tolerance a virtue?

          • lincolnkreifels

            if you don’t recognize a God, you treat yourself as God and therefore are incapable of humility.

          • LiveWire

            No, atheists worship nothing at all, not even oneself. Fake atheists (usually those with supreme power) like Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao Zedong worshiped themselves.

          • lincolnkreifels

            must be a lot of fake atheists going around but I still believe that if you don’t recognize the existence of God that you also reject the existence of perfection because it cannot be found on earth even though the concept of perfection exists instinctively in our minds.

          • CharLiDog

            If you don’t recognize there are no gods, you treat yourself as a slave to the barbaric mutterings of a primitive people.
            Is there a context in which stoning a child is moral or acceptable?

          • mzungu

            Now CharLiDog you have to admit lincolnreifels has a point. If time makes a people primitive then why do you still enjoy chocolate chip cookies just like your grandmother used to bake? Shouldn’t it be time to be more progressive and improve chocolate chip cookies with a big spoonful of avocado? This is the approach of Progressives.

            If ever the story “The Emperor’s New Clothes” had a poster boy it would be Barack Obama.

          • lincolnkreifels

            there is nothing enslaving about theism. in fact living out the lifestyle of Jesus Christ can only be a liberating experience.

          • MrCrusha

            and you would know how liberating it is while you are posting comments on the internet?

          • lincolnkreifels

            I didn’t say I or this was an example but yes, I do know.

          • linreis

            hmmm, allah has very strange love for islams children.

          • CDextrous

            What an enormous pile of bullshit.

          • lincolnkreifels

            sorry

          • x4BSOLUTExZER0x

            [A]. ‘Athiests are not bad people, [B] why would your peace loving,compassionate, ever forgiving God wish anyone harm? Isn’t tolerance a virtue?’

            [A]. I only somewhat agree with you. True, not ALL atheists are bad people, but I will tell you, I’ve come to meet some extremely hateful intolerant ones with not a single ounce of respect for anyones feelings, no matter the situation. But, at the same time, my one of my best friends is a strong atheist and we get along extremely well. There are bad people in all areas of religion…period.

            [B]. One thing I don’t understand is why people blame God for all the disasters they get involved in. Example, why would God let a family die in a tornado? Is it because he isn’t ‘peace loving, compassionate and ever forgiving’? No, its because that family lived in an area where tornadoes are possible. Live in Alaska they never see tornados. Another scenario, why did someone child get cancer and die?…..Why did they have the child in the first place? Its common sense that leads to these disasters. If you get sick, its your fault for living around other people with germs. If a TV hits you from the sky its your fault for being there in the first place. Humans have their own selves to blame.

          • mzungu

            Hah big dose of BIBLE is needed for you. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Do you know what ‘all’ means? That means atheists are evil, I was evil, you may still be evil. Our hearts burn with evil but Jesus Christ saves us from our heavy load of the debt of sin by unwarranted forgiveness. So it isn’t the Christian that is being judgmental it is the Atheist like yourself.

          • MrCrusha

            So basically you are stating that it is ok for people to sin because god will forgive you of your sins as long as you believe? Also if someone lives a pious life and does nothing wrong to anyone or anything and they die they will go to hell because they are atheist? Interesting…. I also ponder what about the priests who spread the word of god as they are molesting children and the vatican has nothing to say?

          • linreis

            Jesus saves those who TRULY repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior. That is the one true way to Heaven.

          • mzungu

            Ravi Zacharias rzim.org
            http://carm.org/

          • Kay Briskey

            Janod, In all His wisdom, God who created us, knows far more than us. What he says, I believe and doubt not. Throughout Biblical recorded history, God selected holy men to record what God wanted man to know. God has reasons that often are beyond our understanding. Jesus was sent into the world as God’s spokesman. That he understood the true purpose of the human mind, is reflected in his teachings. Those who hear and obey his precepts have the knowledge to live satisfying lives, sans creating disunity and disharmony among their fellow man. Understanding the true purpose of the human mind, and using it correctly remains as the highest means for obtaining the true happiness that money and whatever else is deemed important have no guarantees for the same success. Simply, God commands we obey him. Atheists, for all I know, may not be “bad people”. They wish not to obey. It is their God given free will to do as they wish. The Bible makes clear, not all will enter the Kingdom of God.

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            I know because his family that was at his bedside with him as he took his last breath said it happened. God sent His son Jesus to this earth as a way to escape hell. He gives us a choice. It’s your choice.

          • G W

            Isn’t tolerance a virtue? NO it is not a virtue. Patience is a virtue.Tolerating the ignorant comments of CharLiDog is painful. Bye the way turning a blind eye to ignorance does not mean the ignorance or unacceptable behavior will be tolerated forever. The problem with tolerance is that the offensive belief or behavior being tolerated by the majority becomes emboldened by the tolerance given. The tolerated then become aggressive and attack the majority beliefs and opinion. Sooner or later the majority is gonna say enough and push back.

          • Is this better?

            Tolerating the ignorant teachings of the bible has went on far long enough. Tolerating the ignorance and bigotry of christianity has went on far long enough. WE are no longer going to tolerate YOUR offensive behaviors. WE are no longer going to sit in silence and let you make a mockery of our children or our country.

            Ignorance is not in understanding the universe, but in using fiction to ensure your understanding never goes beyond stupidity.

          • linreis

            Jarrod, God is forgiving, but you have to ask for it with humility…not the ego you are cruising with…God has given you free will to make your own choices.
            Personally, I’d rather live here on earth with the knowledge of an everlasting life WITH God…if I die and ‘find’ there is nothing, I’ve led as good a life as possible! However, living without a belief in God, choosing my ego over His promise and then die to find out I missed out on the greatest gift ever, because if there is Heaven, there is Hell. You choose.

          • Al Makin

            How can you curse God if you don’t believe in him,That’s like cursing nothing
            Guess he believed in the end…

          • lincolnkreifels

            Good looks at the heart, not the mind, there is no way to know.

          • Debbie Peterson

            I have a colleague who is an athiest – yet he spends most of his time and is more comfortable around Christians. I find that pretty amusing. Also, when things would go wrong or something unexpected happened, he would say, “Oh G-d,” or “My God.” Finally I told him, “You can’t say that. You don’t believe in G-d, you have absolutely no grounds to say that. If you want to say something, say, “Oh, Budha, Oh Mohammed.”

          • Alex

            The ignorance in this post is amazing. Buddha is from Buddhism and Muhammed from Islam.

            An athiest believes in no God or religion.

          • God

            Actually, atheists do not believe in god. Religion is definitely real – it’s shoved into my face every single day. You could say government itself is a religion – follow these rules, live this way, etc. etc. Both are simply methods to control the masses.

          • jen

            its like how you can talk about santa but not believe hes real .talking about a mythical thing does not mean we believe it exists .

          • Shari Rhodes

            Jen: Santa WAS REAL, in the person of St. Nikolaos of Myra (Greece), 270 A.D. to 343 A.D. He became a saint of the Catholic church upon his death. He was beloved by children for his habit of leaving small gifts for them on Christmas Eve. The fact that he is dead does not make him ‘unreal’. Likewise, Jesus was a real person, born into human form but containing the personhood of God simultaneously. His existence is recorded not only in the Bible, but in the writings of multiple respected sources. Simply because the human part of Jesus was murdered, does not make Him ‘unreal’. It’s a simple matter of faith whether a person believes in Jesus’ deity and resurrection.

          • mzungu

            Bringing us back to Noah’s Ark are the many accounts of a worldwide flood in other cultures. Its late otherwise I would cite sources but my pillow calls me.

          • God

            I’m curious – what simple part of faith allows you to determine whether or not you should stone your children to death if they act bad? If it’s god’s word, then it must be good as god is everything imaginably good – then it would be that if god’s words said to kill your children with stones if they are bad then killing your children with stones if they are bad would be undeniably good.

            Assuming you’ve had children, and at least once those children have misbehaved, and that you did not or have not killed them, how do you justify going against god’s good will? How do you justify not going to hell for going against god’s good will?

            The fact is, you don’t. You understand morally that killing your children would be a bad deal, and that moral didn’t come from the bible or god’s word (rather – it went directly against the bible and god’s word) – it came from a intrinsic self-identifiable understanding of what is right and wrong. And if you understand that you are right in not killing your children, and your morals are just for not killing your children, then the fact is – you put yourself in front of god. You have more belief in yourself than you think.

          • Iron Tub

            Seeing that you have read the Old Testament, why don’t you take the time to learn and understand the New Covenant instead of repeating the same thing over and over.

          • Kyle

            YA! The old testament has to be real because a lot of people say it is! It is in that ship somewhere…….

          • God

            Sorry, grew out of fairy tales when I was about 6. I’ve read enough of both books to know I would have a better chance of finding a cartoon Bambi talking to me in the middle of a forest than I would of ever finding/meeting/believing in your magic man in the sky.

          • Iron Tub

            Ya, sarcasm is always the best response. Your beliefs are non of my concern actually. What are you sorry about? I just don’t really understand why you keep ranting about something you don’t believe in. it shouldn’t matter to you should it? And I didn’t say anything about any books. At least try to pay attention.

          • God

            Of course it matters to me – people want to govern me and mine through their government and/or church government. More rules. More control. And it’s all misguided. Why would I want my society to be governed by 1) a bunch of idiots (which seems to be the standard in this country), and 2) people using religion as a disguise to promote bigotry?

            Don’t bother coming back with the argument “those are beliefs, not bigotry”. To which I will respond “those are beliefs in bigotry.” I will argue against bigotry and misinformation until the day I feed the worms, or fishes, or whatever.

          • God

            You advised me to read the NC – I said sorry, no.

            Why does it matter to me? Because I don’t need/want to be advertising this nonsense in government and public schools. Because I want the average American to actually be able to understand the difference between reality and fable. Because I’m tired of people using an ancient fable as reasoning for being bigoted morons. Because I’m tired of people using an ancient fable as reasoning in attempts to make ridiculous laws they have no business making.

            And you did say something about books – are you not paying attention to your own typing thoughts? That’s kind of messed up.

          • Iron Tub

            Its pitiful that I have to repeat and you could simply scroll up and look . I said learn about the new covenant. That is not book! You have cornered the market on messed up.

          • God

            is the new convenant not the new testament? Could you maybe provide links to this new covenant?

            in the meantime, could you look up horns of niktome? It doesn’t exist and I just now made it up, but I’ll assume you’ll know that I’m talking about something totally different.

          • Iron Tub
          • Iron Tub

            lol…..Sounds like a video game ,There is an architect in Italy by that name but, he is hornless.

          • Iron Tub

            And although you are free to choose any user name you like, i would have to admit that is better.

          • Iron Tub

            After giving your post a little more thought. It seems that you have assumed I was talking about reading the New Testament. The words covenant and testament have completely different meanings. Reading the Bible as you said that you had , I assumed that you knew the difference. But actually you probably haven’t and just repeating an interpretation that is favorable to you and your beliefs (or non beliefs in this case) As I have said before, It doesn’t matter to me what you believe. The only thing that we can agree on is that we don’t agree with each others opinion. God , Family and Country has and always will be the order of priorities in my life. So you can rage all you want and it makes no difference , but you might want to learn a little more about what you are talking about.

          • Kay Briskey

            I beg your pardon, but, missing is common sense. An unborn innocent, not even afforded opportunity to misbehave can be ‘legally’ – according to a rogue Congress – murdered before drawing breath? Are we to assume that is OK with you? Furthermore; have you an example of a Christian parent stoning a child to death …. EVER? What about this argument makes it anything, but moot?

          • God

            I am pro-choice, if that is what you’re asking. I’m okay with first trimester abortion, yes. This world doesn’t need any unwanted children – parenting is bad enough as it is, why add that in?

            Do I have an example? Thankfully, no. The argument is not moot because people are smart enough to realize the wrongness of stoning their children – the words are still there. And it even says in the NT that the laws from the OT are still in play and must be obeyed. That those laws are not legal or that those laws don’t fit in with the current lifestyle choices is moot – if you are to believe the OT and NT are the words of a god and those are in fact god’s laws, then how do you derive the choice that you get to choose which laws to follow?

            ‘m not being mean – I’m asking why christians seem to take this stance (which to me is hypocritical) that they get to ignore some of god’s laws, but other’s (which often don’t even concern their own well-being) are matter of fact and often used in argumentation.

          • Kay Briskey

            Indeed, the Ten Commandments are still important today to Christians. So is the Golden Rule.

            But, where in the NT is found that disobedient children must be stoned to death, or homosexuals must be killed, or whole nations wiped out?

          • God

            I don’t see anything in the NT about abortion. It would seem that you and many others are terming abortion as murder – and if that’s how you want to look at it, more power to you – and your answer should be for YOU not to have an abortion. It’s not your place, however, to make that determination for everyone else.

            The verses in the NT referring to the OT are mixed in whether or not they are to be applied. Some say the OT law is still valid, others say not so much. I’ve seen pastors that have said the NT is spiritually acknowledging the OT laws, but those laws are only followed to the spiritual intent of the laws. The fact is, it was still god’s laws. In other words, you are still praying and believing in the being that had a severely distorted sense of justice, and that sense is still distorted. “All of your past sins are swept away if you simply believe in me.” Seriously – why would an all-powerful being have this distorted view? The differences in punishment are huge – entire continents of people are being sent to hell because they pray to the gods they dreamed up, but there’s some pretty bad people going to heaven because they simply believe in JC. And that makes sense to people….

            Let’s remember one thing – I don’t believe in god or any supreme being of any type. And I find the hypocritical aspects of both the OT and NT to be abhorrent. God says don’t kill but wipes out entire cities. God says don’t kill but entire groups go have wars under the guise of ‘god said to do it’ and murder a whole bunch of other people. So no – I’m not being disobedient to anyone unless I go against my own beliefs.

          • Kay Briskey

            I haven’t yet had a reply from my first response to you yesterday. I would appreciate having one.
            Regarding abortion: OK. for you I shall soften my terminology to abortion stops a beating heart.
            I know of no reference to abortion in the NT.
            Did you know that God knew us before we were in the womb? (Can’t wait to see your response on this). Jeremiah 1:4-5; Luke 1:15; Genesis 25:23.
            I would not be surprised to learn that God has a spiritual computer that contains the entire life of each individual He knew first in the womb, and that each individual at the end of his life must view his life to see himself as God did.

          • Is this better?

            Sorry – I’ve been busy with other discussions and getting some side work finished for a coast guard exam. I can only say that I’m keeping this debate in the back of my mind and will continue when I’ve sufficiently read enough to participate. That’s all I can promise at this moment in time.

          • Kay Briskey

            Terrific! I almost missed your comment …. caught it just as I’m signing off. I shall look forward to what you will have to say.

          • Kay Briskey

            The collective thinking of the OT peoples – more accepting of barbaric practices – gave way by the teachings of Jesus of a whole new concept of living: love one another, and forgive! Jesus was God sent to earth. WHO ….. better knows the workings of the human mind than its creator?
            The great appeal of Jesus, that endures to this very day, is found in the wisdom of his teachings. No other man in history has so favorably impacted the world. The great tragedy comes from those who throughout the ages have rejected him and his message.

          • CharLiDog

            His existence is recorded not only in the Bible, but in the writings of multiple respected sources.

            That’s a flat out lie. Not that it makes any difference to the truth of any other claim, but you’re just telling lies.
            Hard to believe that in your mind, a god who can do anything makes us, knowing what would happen and his punishment is eternal torture. And his solution to let us live with him forever is to violently sacrifice himself/son/whatever. Your god demands the blood of an innocent living creature be spilled to atone for doing what we do.
            You are in a blood sacrifice cult. Whether some guy named jebus lived or not doesn’t change your cult. And one thing being true in your buybull doesn’t vindicate the massive number of places where we KNOW it’s wrong.
            You’re misleading people and being intellectually dishonest. In fact, I bet it’s been pointed out that your claim is wrong before. But here you are again, trying to use it and being called on it again. This the the morality I find most theists exhibit. You can’t be trusted. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact. You’re a liar.

          • Kay Briskey

            “His existence is recorded not only in the Bible, but in the writings of multiple respected sources.”

            Shari was referring to Jesus ….. NOT to the person that is recognized as
            being the person from which sprang, “Santa”.

          • Frank

            spot on.
            Also, belief is a matter of faith, if Jesus was or was not resurrected does not invalidate his message. People must have weak faith if they need to find the ark or “prove” evolution is false to validate their belief. Science is a spanner, faith is a blanket, one is comforting and the other a useful tool, but neither can perform the others function.

          • Kay Briskey

            As is here in America, construction in recent decades is transforming Israel. Consequently, found deep in the ground of Israeli construction sites are ancient buildings and artifacts that continue to prove as true, the history found in the Old Testament. The Jewish people and Christians look forward to these discoveries ……. which can cause only concern to atheists.

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            I guess he cursed God because he saw he had been wrong about His existence his whole life. I have seen and felt the power of God so many times in my life. That’s how I know He is real. It is your choice to believe or not to believe.

          • Dennis Stephan

            So you were actually there to witness him “cursing ‘god’ with his last breath”??? Because that sounds more like a sermon you would’ve been read at church. If he was an atheist, he would have had no need to ‘curse god’, any more than you would feel the need to curse Zeus or Apollo on YOUR deathbed. Or santa, for that matter. Because to an atheist, your ‘god’ doesn’t exist any more than the rest of them. It was simple propaganda that you bought hook, line, and sinker, because it helped reinforce your belief that you’re correct, and everyone who doesn’t believe the same as you is wrong.

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            I know because members of his family said it happened. He cursed God I guess because he was sent to a burning hell for not believing. He found out God was real. We all make a choice and we all must live with whatever consequences occur. No, that was not a sermon at church.

          • CharLiDog

            Seriously, what a bunch of BS. If you believe that ridiculous story, you’ll believe anything. What a weak minded person you are. And so lonely you need an imaginary friend and to belong to a cult.
            Will you curse Thor on your deathbed? How will you know which god to curse if you see fire at death? Is there a sign that says, “This is the xian Hell”? Do you see how idiotic your story is? This is one of the dumbest groups of people I’ve met in a long time. The further right you go, ….

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            There is only one true God – the creator of this universe and unfortunately you.

          • CharLiDog

            Why only one? Your criteria for evidence is so low, you could claim any number. As for gmaw, my sympathies of course, but she wasn’t healed. She passed. And what do you say to people in other faiths who claim similar experiences? You both are claiming the same thing, and you both can’t be right. You can, however, both be wrong.
            You need to look closer, you are definitely in a cult. And it is a particularly immoral and barbaric, blood sacrifice cult. You no longer get to describe the atrocities committed by your god as acts of love.
            Your delusion is hindering the progress of humanity. It has to go. There are no gods coming to save us, and you people want to act like there is. No god deeded any property to anyone. There is no cosmic justice or forgiveness. We are responsible. We are in control of our destiny. Those are facts, not beliefs. You people need to wake up and deal with reality.
            Most of my posts are several paragraphs of valid arguments. Stop lying saying all I do is spread evil. I spread the truth. I’m willing to change my position. You, OTOH, deny and ignore anything that contradicts your delusion.
            Seriously examine what you believe. I have correctly framed the cult you are in. Look at some specifics though. There are billions of stars in the Milky Way. There are billions of galaxies. In your mind, it’s logical that all this was created just for us. In your mind, eternal torture is justice. And you think a killer of thousands of children is worthy of worship. Try naming an attribute of satanism that doesn’t apply to xians. You have been brainwashed to see things 180 degrees off reality. That’s why I donate my time to correcting the lies of theists. Two more generations will see your religion almost disappear. We have the truth, and you can’t hide it from the masses anymore.

          • Ronald Reiman

            You wish. A complete rejection of God does not prove that God does not exist. Wishing it were so does not make it so.

          • CharLiDog

            In typical theist fashion, you’re 180 degrees off reality. It is you wishing for a god, not me wishing there wasn’t one. Oh how you project.
            Look at the god you’ve chose for your delusion. Look at his morals. Abraham was told to kill his son; some other guy did kill his daughter (your god insisted). He MADE Pharaoh say no, just so he could kill the firstborn. Do I even need to mention the millions of innocent children and babies he horrifically killed in the flood? What about the teens he made a bear horrifically kill? Your god concept is a sadistic monster.
            How can you defend membership in a ritualistic, barbaric blood sacrifice cult from the bronze age? Do you even realize every attribute you give satanists is true of your religion. Human and animal sacrifice? Check. Cannibalism? Check. Drinking blood? Check. People in robes? Check. Rituals? Check. Evil? Check. Cursing enemies? Check. I can’t think of an attribute that doesn’t apply to your religion.
            Satan is the good guy in your story book. Knowing what was at stake and vastly outnumbered, he tried to dispose of the megalomaniac for us. Now lets compare the sacrifices. Your god was tortured one day, and was dead for three. Satan’s sacrifice was to be thrown into hell to be tortured for eternity. See, your god cares nothing for you; only himself. Four of the Big Ten are, “look at me, look at me.” Even if your god does control everything, he is a loser of the worst kind.
            Like Satan, I’m a stand up entity; I would never bend knee to such a sadistic child killing bastard. You, OTOH, worship that concept even though it doesn’t exist. It makes you a bad person, Napoleon. (See my other post for the Napoleon reference.)
            There are no world wide science conspiracies. There is no evidence of any god or we would all be aware of it. Listen closely; your hell is no more real than Thor’s. You don’t have to fear it. You don’t have to deceive yourself anymore. You can remove the illogical restriction you have to gaining knowledge. You don’t have to be intentionally ignorant. Read slowly, your. hell. is. no. more. real. than. any. other. You have to know that by now. Just admit it to yourself. Admit what you logically know to be true. Your welcome. *drops the mic.

          • Ronald Reiman

            Harry S Truman dropped the atom bomb onto two Japanese cities killing the old, the women and children, even the babes in arms. was it right? Was it fair? Everything that you say can be explained by those who wish to explain it. I have no such desire as I am not knowledgable enough to do so, I can only submit to God. Time will tell.

          • Kay Briskey

            Your god, Satan, was created by our God. The created, lusted for power and control of the entire universe. Your god acquired the world by encouraging Adam and Eve to sin. He had the entire world, then. Still, it wasn’t enough. He wanted it ALL, the entire universe and for all the universe to bow not to God, the creator, but to him, the upstart, usurper.

          • CharLiDog

            I don’t have a god, Napoleon. You’re are projecting your misery. You are the fox without a tail. You’re so embarrassed that you have a delusion that you justify it to yourself by saying, “everyone has a master.” It’s just a lie, something I wish you all could curtail down to only 50% of your posts instead of the current 95% lies most theists posts are.
            Do the OT laws apply or not, Napoleon?

          • Kay Briskey

            You response is brimming with assumptions. Did I not warn above about making assumptions, which they are until proven true? How about, now, responding to what I wrote several hours ago. Or, are you conveniently skipping a response?

          • CharLiDog

            Do the OT laws apply or not, Napoleon?

            If you have a question I missed, ask it again.

          • Is this better?

            Wow. If you had any idea what happens to the human brain as it’s dying, you’d realize the power of imagination and hallucination. It’s a proven fact that as the brain starts to die and the wiring all goes screwy – people hallucinate repeatedly, and in some cases, constantly. They see things that simply aren’t there – my grandfather kept telling my grandmother that a large turkey was going to fall on her head. The characters from Gilligan’s Island were apparently having dinner on his bed. And he kept telling the nurses to stop walking on the cows. Yes, the COWS.

            You are a member of a cult – one of the 5 oldest cults in the world. You are definitely weak-minded, as you’re using imaginary teddy bears as reasoning to avoid reality, which is a common trait among weak-minded individuals. Stuck in a cave being shown shadows of reality is nothing like reality at all. I feel sorry for you never being able to experience the life you have. Truly, I do.

          • Laureen Acton

            Why are you here? Just ridiculing and making fun of people to boost yourself up? Who is the weak minded one??

          • lt75

            You say the same thing…that you’re right and ridicule anyone that has a different belief than you. You sound angry and mock people with a Christian belief. If you think their beliefs are inferior, why are you arguing with them and not being in control of you own anger? Isn’t arguing with someone of “lower”intelligence a tad immature and a reflection of you’re immaturity. Why do you have a need to go on a site about a Christian article and mock everyone that is discussing it? People that do that do it because of their own insecurity in their own beliefs. I’m not going to go on an atheists site because it is sheer nonsense to me, and I am not going to subject myself to the abuse that I would receive from them. Something called wisdom, that yes, is taught in the Bible. Don’t throw your pearls of wisdom to swine. Yes, I just did what i said I shouldn’t do. I am also saying it on a site written towards those interested in hearing about it.

          • Dennis Stephan

            Also… one last thing: being religious does not, regardless of what some atheists out there believe, automatically mean that you are “of a lower intelligence.” There are a lot of stupid people that are religious, and they generally VASTLY outnumber the intelligent people, but it’s not a prerequisite. I mean, it helps, for sure… but it’s not everyone. ;) There’s stupid atheists out there, too. Intelligence doesn’t denote what you will believe.
            Gullibility, on the other hand…

          • CharLiDog

            Why would you feel the need to clarify something that you admit can be generalized? Besides, we all know the caveats implied by all encompassing hyperbole. All theists might not be complete idiots, but if you meet a theist, you know as well as I it’s going to be an idiot. Someone who reuses to acknowledge reality in favor of protecting a delusion.
            Let me point out the main reason why generalizing is actually pretty accurate. The average theist thinks faeries exist. They think they can communicate with pink unicorns telepathically. They think Big Foot can interfere with reality. (Big Foot, faeries, unicorns, god; I get them confused.) Anyway, theists live their life based on these beliefs. And they refuse to acknowledge any evidence that contradicts their delusion. What more do I need to know most theists are idiots? Incapable of rational, reasonable thought.
            Take it a step further. Consider 2/3 of humans are in a blood sacrifice cult. The god concept they worship is a sadistic monster; an immoral tyrant. He commands his followers to do barbaric and stupid things. Thankfully, xians (most of course, not all: see how cumbersome using caveats all the time would be?) are more moral than their god so they ignore/deny the most of the bastard’s commands. Again, theists refuse to acknowledge any evidence, even in their own holy book, that contradicts their delusion. What more do I need to know theists are on the side of the bell curve closer to us living in trees? Maybe “intellectually retarded” is better to use. Admit it, sometimes stereotypes are accurate labels.
            What does it say about a person that worships a sadistic, innocent child killing monster? They’re in a blood sacrifice cult from the bronze age. Keep in mind I’m not saying anything they aren’t saying, I just frame the issue more accurately. They try to act like brutally killing an innocent life to atone for your own sins is how the universe operates. I call that practice what it is, a barbaric superstitious ritual. And to belabor the point, anyone who can’t see the truth … is an idiot.

          • Kay Briskey

            The drawback on generalizing is it leaves too much room for assumptions. An assumption well formed – whether true or not – finds its way into the subconscious mind. Once there it becomes true and the person will from then on act upon an untruth as if it is true.

            A subconscious filled with assumptions eventually overpowers the individual’s ability to form accurate perceptions. This is the source of quarrels and hard feelings. Jesus understood exactly how the subconscious and conscious parts of the mind worked together. But, then, he should have as he was God on earth.

          • CharLiDog

            The idea that people become a god to themselves is slave propaganda. You have been brainwashed to be a slave. Part of that is convincing you that everybody has a master; why not be a slave here. It’s a totally ridiculous argument. Atheists don’t have or need gods/imaginary friends. You are the fox without a tail (misery loves company).
            I love to write, but I’ll try to keep this short. Please explain the truth that comes from your buybull (I hope they’re not all metaphysical BS that can be claimed by anyone, because really, let’s try to stay in reality). Please explain exactly what laws you are talking about (how ardently do you follow them?). And tell me why they should be obeyed since the only thing it takes to get into heaven is to ask. Right?

          • Kay Briskey

            God’s law protects us. Keeps our minds and our bodies healthy. Being well grounded in Biblical law as a child is a good start and a big help because throughout life we are bombarded with reasons to sin. Growing up learning the Bible is a big help, too, because it contains much wisdom re: living a responsible life, which is far more apt to bring success in the various life activities.

            Still, even for those children raised in safe and comfortable homes, under the protective and guiding adult hand there are temptations. Not one of us is immune to temptations. We all make mistakes, and often at great consequence to achieving the success and satisfaction we anticipated in the adult world. But, all is not lost at that point.

            God is a forgiving God. He well knows that life down here is tough. He really does love us. But, if we’ve slammed the door shut between us and Him, He must obey his own law. He gave us free will. We turned our back to him. He can help us only if we ask him for help, which requires changing our attitude – words from Napoleon Hill that are as sound today as they have always been: “Change your attitude; change your circumstances.” God can not reach us through an attitude of rejection to Him. When we are as desperate as we can be, is usually when we are ready to have a conversation with God, acknowledging we tried it our way, failed, are hurting, and now ready to really “hear” Him.

            The human penchant for ignoring God’s law always bring consequences. Then what do we do? Some of us? Blame and curse God for our own disobedience. He told us. He warned us. We didn’t listen; and now we are mad at the world because it did not deliver what we expected and wanted.

            He gave us the Ten Commandments because every single one will cause grief if broken. You can find them in Exodus – chapter 20 and in Deuteronomy – chapter 5, or at: http://lifehopeandtruth.com/bible/10-commandments/the-ten-commandments/10-commandments-list/

            The Golden Rule is from the OT: “Do to others as you would have them do to you.” “You reap what you sow”.

            It is also known as the Law of Reciprocity “One of the most potent of the weapons of influence around us is the rule for reciprocation. The rule says that we should try to repay, in kind, what another person has provided us.” Robert B. Cialdini, author of The Psychology of Persuasion (William Morrow, 1993) – See more at: http://www.coachingtip.com/2012/09/build-a-simple-system-to-achieve-success.html#sthash.zzDqchZy.dpuf
            This is as much law as I have time for today. I do have other than law to share if you care to hear. The rest of your query I’ll have to get back to later. Best to you.

          • CharLiDog

            I don’t even know where to start. The platitudes, false assertions, misrepresentations, or the outright lies. I’m going to resist writing a book, and just look at one little part that fits in with previous posts.
            Here you are, after trying so hard to convince me that jebus made stoning kids obsolete (you always gloss over that such an immoral law ever existed), telling me the big ten apply. Which is it Napoleon? Do OT laws apply or not?!
            Let’s look at some facts. Don’t lie, steal, or kill existed long before your god was ever conceived of. Add in a few more like don’t rape or assault and you have the foundation for the evolution of society. Those were the first blocks laid, be adept to them or your genes don’t get passed on.
            Back to your big ten. You have four that say, “look at me, look at me.” What a narcissistic megalomaniac. Obey mom and dad made it, rape didn’t. Then there’s adultery and the one that refers to women in the same group of property that cattle occupies. That’s right, and this isn’t the only place. Children are grouped with cattle (and slaves) in the Lott story. Come to think of it, you’re not even supposed to try and teach me anything, are you? Especially anything religious. You’re just a woman, after all. These are the commands of your god concept.
            You say you know the buybull, but I don’t think you have ever applied rational thought to it. So which is it, Napoleon? Do OT laws apply today or not?

          • Kay Briskey

            Let me remind you. YOU asked the questions. I responded.

          • CharLiDog

            Which is it, Napoleon, do OT laws apply today or not?

          • Kay Briskey

            I and others have already answered this question for you. I suggest you read it all again. All responses from me and others to which you’ve given nothing back except hostility. Don’t you see we have your best interests at heart. That is one of fine qualities of the Christian faith. Remember my telling you this? The greatest appeal of Jesus was that he said, “love one another and forgive”. That was the essence of his being. No real happiness has ever, will ever come to anyone who – for whatever reason – fails to absorb this beautiful message.
            Deny a child’s inborn ability to love and to forgive, by ill treatment and lack of essential knowledge, will aptly set the child on a rocky life journey that denies the real abilities, traits, personality, contributions, etc., to the world; the purpose being to blossom and to unfold as a beautiful flower that brings joy to those who behold. To me, there is no finer feeling in the world, than knowing I have done right and well to myself and to others.
            I ask nothing of you but to agree I have a right to my beliefs and opinions that stand on the foundation of my faith; that you be less hostile; and more open to a bon accord dialogue from here on in. Did you miss the part about the law of reciprocity?

          • CharLiDog

            No, Napoleon. I’m not going to read it all again. Do the OT laws apply today or not. First you say no, then you say yes.
            I love how you assert no one can be happy without your god. Because we all know how happy xians are. And xians are the only happy people in the world. That’s just more lies from a slave mentality. The situation is you are so lonely you don’t think you can be happy without your imaginary friend/enemy. The reality is, I would hope knowing your friends and family won’t be tortured forever would make you happy. But then, xians are often as sadistic as their god.
            Do the OT laws apply or not, Napoleon?

          • Kay Briskey

            It would be to your advantage, CharLi, to read it all again; with an open mind sans bristling throughout with hostility.

            I shall answer your question. Some do; some don’t.

          • CharLiDog

            How convenient for you, especially since they’re all found in the same section. Is this one of those, “you have to be a believer to interpret the text”?
            If you want to know the source of my hostility, I have a video that explains it in great detail. I’m not mad at your imaginary god, that is an utterly ridiculous argument. I am mad at you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWKg5EM0-sA

            Feel free to watch the other two videos I have on my channel. One is a challenge to theists. A challenge I’ve made for years and had no takers. I’m sure you won’t take it either. That all fits in with why I dislike you. Why you are my enemy, and the enemy of progress.

          • linreis

            The Old Testament provides the history of a people; the New Testament focus is on a Person. The Old Testament shows the wrath of God against sin (with glimpses of His grace); the New Testament shows the grace of God toward sinners (with glimpses of His wrath).

            With the coming of Christ, God has established a new covenant with mankind (Jeremiah 31:31-34, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:8-13, 9:11-15). Jesus and His apostles gave us a radically new understanding of the true intent of the Old Testament Law; they brought a new era of the rule of love for all people and spiritual truth instead of rule by law (Luke 10:25-28, John 13:34-35, Ephesians 2:14-18).

          • linreis

            why are you on this site, if you believe half of your own platitudes you’ve shared with us all.

            People like you use the Old Testament to argue your positions, when you should enlighten yourself with the NEW. You can actually look up several good sites that help you study. The Old Testament provides the history of a people; the New Testament focus is on a Person. The Old Testament shows the wrath of God against sin (with glimpses of His grace); the New Testament shows the grace of God toward sinners (with glimpses of His wrath).

            Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html#ixzz2t55iFPvo

          • Kay Briskey

            I don’t associate crude, rude, ill tempered people with intelligence.

          • linreis

            and its not an IQ score that determines all intelligence.

          • Laureen Acton

            Well said, I’ve wondered the exact same thing about these atheist trolls. Why??

          • Highway1

            “If he was an atheist, he would have had no need to ‘curse god’,”
            I hear Atheists curse God all the time.

          • Dennis Stephan

            Sure you do… Just like I hear xtians curse Zeus and Thor all the time. This is’t that difficult of a concept, dude… if you don’t believe something exists, you have NO positive or negative feelings towards it what-so-ever. Atheists wouldn’t curse “god” any more than we would santa, the easter bunny, Sauron, Godzilla, etc etc etc etc. We know fantasy and fiction when we hear it, and we treat it as such.

            Now if you’re referring to any atheists saying things like “oh my god”, “god damn it”, anything like that… they’re expressions, and they piss off xtians. It doesn’t denote faith in “god’s” existence.

          • Kay Briskey

            Dennis, many Christians are actually fence straddlers. If they were to stand before God, they would realize the ways they have disappointed him by not living in a true Christian manner. Please don’t lump all Christians into that category. Not all Christians will make it into God’s Kingdom.

          • Dennis Stephan

            You poor thing… you do understand, than when I said I heard xtians cursing Zeus and Thor, I was being sarcastic, right? You DON’T hear xtians cursing them because they don’t believe in them. To curse them would be a complete waste of time and thought. The same goes for atheists cursing “god”. You’ll never see it. At most, you’d hear them talk negatively about what your idea of “god” is. If someone were to actually curse “god”, that means they believe I him, and by definition it means they aren’t an atheist. I was just pointing out that Highway1′s post was completely asinine.

          • Kay Briskey

            Now, I do. Since you had to explain it! Sometimes I get a little addlebrained. But, I’m always glad to be straightened out. You, see I’ve been dialoguing with CharLiDog, thinking, surely, he could manage a response with no insults. I think I should just blame it on CharLi. LOL

          • Frank

            Really? you need to read the bible instead of telling everyone what it says, start with the parable of the lost sheep……If he was breathing, it wasn’t too late.

          • CharLiDog

            If he had the wherewithall to curse the god, why not just ask the god for his forgiveness? It’s never too late. See, your “judgement day” is nothing of the sort. It’s simply a check for a club card, with that card being belief with no evidence. There is absolutely NO justice being carried out. Another example of how xians misrepresent the facts by about 180 degrees.
            You all think your beliefs don’t have any affect on you. But look at what you do. This story, which has all the earmarks of being made up, is valid and acceptable to you. You filed it under fact. But libraries, universities, and museums all around the world, full of evidence, you file under ignore and deny. You are actually denying what you know logically to be true in order to maintain your delusion.
            A guy thinks he’s Napoleon. You point out all the facts that disprove it, and he just denies and ignores and excuses the evidence, continuing to insist he’s Napoleon. Now, would you put that guy in charge of anything? Would you allow him to raise kids, keeping in mind he would be brainwashing them the entire time to believe that he’s Napoleon. Think about how his kids will be ridiculed until they accept the truth.
            You, fellow human, think you are Napoleon, and I don’t know how to convince you of the truth. I can’t get you to accept the evidence you can see and touch and study and see so clearly what the truth is. You keep dismissing it in spite of how overwhelming the evidence is.
            You need to think about this. Your hell is no more real than Thor’s. You do not have to be afraid to accept reality. Once you do, you will see how ridiculous you were before. You will pity those that don’t have the mental capacity to use reason and logic. But you will also see why we have to do something about them before they end up killing us all.

          • Laureen Acton

            Jana, it is something that atheists like Charli will NEVER understand. We truly believe what we believe and we don’t want anyone to spend eternity in hell. It is what we believe is going to happen to them and it is compassion that makes us want to save them.

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            I agree Laureen. From the things he writes, I think he will fit right in with the demons of hell, unfortunately. I am not going to respond to anything else he writes, because it is a waste of my time. He is a very confused person thinking we believe in unicorns, big foot, and fairies. I don’t know why he calls our God a child killing monster. That would instead be the people that have abortions. I am totally against abortion. He is very confused and has demons filling his head with evil. The Bible says do not argue with unbelievers so I am finished with him.

          • http://fmobserver.com/ CODYMART

            BUAHAHAH! My religion states that dipshits like you will burn in hell forever. What now?

          • Jana Watson Colburn

            You have a right to believe whatever you wish to believe.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Don’t be skurred Charlie. Stay Calm and Repent.

          • crq

            It’s really such a shame that you have the need to be so stridently vehement in your condemnation of other’s beliefs – regardless of what those beliefs are. Dial it down a bit, read up on it & then you can challenge it based on a little knowledge & scholarship as opposed to just mindless venting…

          • CharLiDog

            Oh the poor poor persecuted theist. Oh how dare people like me call them on their lies.
            What’s a shame is that there are so many gullible idiots still in barbaric, blood sacrifice cults. We’ve been to the moon people.

          • Guest

            We’re gullible, yet you believe ETs created the human race?

          • Michael

            All in all, every single human being is “gullible”. We all have our own beliefs in our own minds but in hand have been set by many others beliefs. It seems believing in anything is technically being “gullible” anymore.

          • Kay Briskey

            Throughout that “two inch thick book” are the hundreds of prophecies that have, throughout history, come true exactly as prophesied, with a few still waiting for the last days; also, scriptural verses written over a period of thousands of years that fit like a hand in a glove. The Bible is a gigantic jigsaw puzzle, that over years of study, heeding and reflection, along with personal life experiences, presents a marvelous and awesome picture of God’s plan for man. Obviously, you or any atheist who attacks it, have not adequately examined it; instead give too much weight to those who steered you from it – how sad. Throughout the Judeo-Christian Bible, is woven the story of Jesus. In Genesis, is the first prophecy of Jesus whose birth lay 4000 years into the future. Bet you didn’t know that. Understanding end time prophecy requires examining the ancient prophets, and the real truths are not seen by those who are not willing to find them. Perhaps, those who instinctively want to obey God’s will is the main reason for being devoted to and being protective of Biblical truths.

          • CharLiDog

            Is there a context when stoning a child is moral and acceptable?

          • Kay Briskey

            Yes, CharliDog. In the Old Testament, and rarely: incorrigibility, in which a child’s stubborn refusal to obey a father or mother was tearing a family apart; after discipline failed, “…his bloodguiltiness is upon him…” (Leviticus 20: 9), meaning, the child had brought the punishment upon his own self. Under Old Testament Law the evil in the midst of the people was to be removed. Sounds stringent in today’s world ….. but, are not, now, the helpless, innocent unborn murdered in the womb?

            Old Testament Law is not enforce, today. It ended with Jesus. Romans 10: 4

          • CharLiDog

            But Matt 5:17. OT law did not end with jebus. And just in case you say I’m taking it out of context, the next verse is: until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
            So are you describing what you think the buybull means, or are those your criteria for when it’s moral and acceptable to kill a child by throwing rocks at it until it is dead? If you’re describing your god’s criteria, do you agree with it?

          • Shari Rhodes

            Wondering if you believe in abortion by demand, CharLi? Is it less atrocious to tear a little baby’s body apart, while the baby is in utter agony, or to inject a saline that burns the baby’s skin and gets into it’s little system, to slowly kill it? Or does that sound just about as violent and sickening as stoning a person (child or otherwise) to death? What about the Muslim practice of cutting little girls’ private parts so they can never have a normal life? Or sawing their heads off/crucifying them/setting them on fire/etc. etc. Those things are going on right now today. There has always been injustice in a sinful world, and it will continue until the human race becomes extinct.

          • God

            Unfortunately, you don’t even know that YOU are part of the problem by perpetuating fairy tales and myths into misguided representations of reality. You recognize those things you mentioned as faulted – as bad, and yet, you follow words written in a book even if they go against what you know in your heart could not possibly be right.

            If god is infallible – the word of god cannot be wrong, and thus, the OT remains the word of god. And to judge those words using your own systems of right and wrong would mean that you would know better than god. He’s going to be pissed when he meets you, I think.

          • Kay Briskey

            A mind rebellious to God has since time began, been the earth’s biggest problem.

          • God

            I can’t tell what scares me more – that you actually believe this fairy tale, or just that you’re bat sh** crazy and I feel sorry for the people around you….

            Wow. Just wow.

          • Dilly Powell-Smith

            To CharLiDog, just a quick question what version of the Bible do you get your verses???

          • Kay Briskey

            I wondered how long it would take you CharLiDog to show your real colors. You got right to it: 1. played funny with two names sacred to Christians; 2. claim as an atheist to be an authority of God’s word without living by God’s law, which makes it impossible for you to understand His word; 3. have an obvious burr under your saddle – obvious in what you posted, later, and so typical of the atheist mind on these websites; 4. a lack of consideration when responding to oppositional viewpoints.

            If you had a sincere interest in the veracity of God’s Word, we could have had an interesting back and forth. But, I failed to find any hint of it, especially in your last several posts which I have no reason to respond to. I fail to understand how you can find true happiness without quieting your obvious discontent with a world in which not everyone agrees with you. Hoping, in casting off now, for new horizons that you might see the wisdom of getting that burr out from under your saddle. Harmony with the world, as Jesus taught, gives good return.

          • God

            Please list the hundreds of prophecies that have come true when making such a claim.

            I can piece together words and sentences out of Huckleberry Finn that would show you just as much meaning when taken out of context and strung together to reinforce common reinforced beliefs.

            The truth is – you don’t have any of your own beliefs. The bible is very clear that those are god’s beliefs, and you are commanded like a zombie to follow his beliefs or perish in a lake of fire for all eternity. I’m curious – one of god’s stated beliefs deals with a father raping his son with a wine bottle, and beings that god said it and this was his belief, this must be your following. When you can justify the raping of a son with a wine bottle with ‘god said so’ – you are no longer you, but merely another X with nothing left to say except ‘god said so, so I did’.

            How sad indeed.

          • Kay Briskey

            Why should I take my time and effort to list the hundreds of prophecies for you? Read them for your self, and until you do, I suggest you quit posting to others your lacks regarding what ancients prophesied that were written in the Bible. Your own words reveal your ignorance of scripture. I suggest you read IT and rely less on your fellow atheists who are merely parroting what other atheists told them.

          • God

            Because in making claims for an argument, one must be able to provide suport for that argument, otherwise, theirclaim is unsubstantiated. I did not make any claims of prophecy fullfillment – you did. So go ahead and back up your claim, or go back to reading fairy tales. I have asked you for what you claimed, that’s all.

          • Kay Briskey

            Your request has shaped up as less confrontation and valid. Both appeal to my Quaker nature. My response was posted, earlier this a.m. Now, I’m scooting for the day, until late this afternoon.

          • Iron Tub

            http://www.reasons.org/articles/articles/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-for-the-reliability-of-the-bible I am sure since you have read the Bible you wont have any problems finding these ( forgive me for my sarcasm). This is in addition and including the post by Kay Briskey. And remember, you wanted to see it . You are in my prayers that you open your mind just a tad.

          • God

            If you’re not going to supply them, let’s talk about them in a general sense, and what it means. History books are full of prophecy – that is, they are full of history. It is without question that prophecizing history is not unique, nor is it difficult. For example, let’s say I wanted to invent a prophecy. I would first need a historical event. I could then invent a person who said the event would happen before the event happened! So is this possible in the bible? Lets see – written hundreds of years after the events occured, and cite actions and claims that have absolutely no way of being verified with the exception that a statement exists that says you cannot doubt my book. Seems a little fishy. But there is another way too – using historical prophecy to influence actions in the present. For example, if a prophecy exists and you could execute that prophecy, then you would rise in status and power. This would work for your children as well. This works as well as putting yourself in position to fulfill said prophecy – as in naming your child Cyrus, and then telling him why you named him Cyrus. Think maybe that might have any influence on young Cyrus? Prophecy is not near the powerful infallible voice of reasoning you seem to think it is.

          • Kay Briskey

            OK. First I owe you an apology for my flippant remark to your first request to see a list. Your response to that indicated interest beyond the usual going for the “gotcha moment”. So, I’m back in the saddle with you; not with CharLiDog, unless I should receive from him an apology.

            I will – since I’ve only a short time this a.m. – give the very first prophecy of Jesus – given by God, Himself, in the Bible’s first Book, Genesis 3:15. I’ve faith that you can determine the meaning of this verse. This is a test – forgive me for still being, at age 74, the classroom teacher. But that is where learning starts. I suggest that by reading the first three chapters you may be able to understand this brief prophecy.
            I’ll be free this afternoon; will be sincerely willing to proceed if you are. I shall be respectful of your thoughts; shall not be in any way, disagreeable, because it has no worthwhile place in my life.

            Beyond this first prophecy, for now, I direct you to two of the major prophets, Daniel and Isaiah. If time, I suggest you give a quick skip through Daniel, who was greatly puzzled by his prophecies (given to him by God) of things that were to take place thousands of years into the future. I particularly admire God’s response to his abject puzzlement.

            I did a quick google and came up with a site to give you a quick, basic introduction to Daniel. This Book, containing just 12 chapters, makes it a good place to start after Genesis 3:15. I look forward to hearing more from you.
            http://christianity.about.com/od/oldtestamentbooks/qt/isaiahintro.htm

          • eric dub

            Hi, new to the discussion but ive read all the replys, i dont know all the facts or whats true or what isnt, i will tell you what i know, i believe in a higher power, i believe we were all and everything was created from some where, weather its god, jesus, ala, budda, just believe that we were created from somewhere, i do not believe in religion, im so conflicted on the bible that, my beliefs are, god didnt make the bible, jesus didnt make the bible, the emporer constintine and a bunch of priest who were running around chopping muslims heads off made the bible, so how can you belive whats in it???? The church made a power move, just like any politican would make, they said your gona believe this this and that and if you dont you will suffer or burn in hell, and all the followers looked to them for guidence and anwsers, what about all the other books that were suppost to be in the bible the church denied?? The book of sarah, the book of enoch, i belive there is a total of 36 books that took out of the bible, cuz it would contradict with what the CHURCH was trying to teach as a power move on thier part, how may friggin priest are out there rapeing little boys??? Religion was created by man, and it sparked the worlds biggest arguement, i believe god is most likely real, but religion is a joke, yes i believe prob a few of the stories in the bible are legit, but that dosent mean i agree with all of it cuz its the truth or even real. People know right from wrong, and people should be free to have theree own rights to thier own beliefs, i find it messed up when a person trys to push and push thier beliefs on you, or judges you for what you do believe, who the hell are you to judge me? If there is a god, only he can judge me, not you and your opinions and views on god or religion or anything else at that matter, you should love everybody, no matter who they are or what they believe, thats just whats logical in my brain.

          • Kay Briskey

            Wow, Eric, you have quite a lot there. Before I could have much to respond with, it would help to know how you have acquired all of this that you have shared. I will say you have what I recognize as a solid start in believing there is a creator. I’m heartened that you are searching and open to learning.

            I would like to hear if you have made studies of your own on the different religions you mentioned. I can see you are indeed, “conflicted on the Bible”. I can assure you that it contains an amazing amount of wisdom and some of the world’s most beautiful writings. It contains poetry, prophecy, history, proverbs and wonderful teachings on daily living, as exampled by the different individuals who appear at different times over the four thousand years covered by the Old and New Testaments.
            My favorite in the Old Testament is Joseph. As a teen ager, he was sold into slavery by his brothers, endured later trials and tribulations, and emerged with an unscathed mind by which, years later, he saved his family (including those brothers) from starving during the seven year famine. I would like to have met Joseph. I have a list of questions I would have asked him!

            I don’t know the author, but here is a meaningful quote: “Knowledge is needed to pass the test in school, but wisdom is needed to pass the test in life.” Wisdom comes from God, and you will find plenty of it in the Bible.
            As you have read the different replies, here, I imagine you have noted the different styles of writing, attitudes, and mode of responding. I’m pleased to say the ones politely and thoughtfully written represent those who know the Bible. That, alone, tells that Biblical knowledge is a cultivator of the soul.
            You’ve made some good points regarding negatives of the church, of over zealous religions, and how the various books were selected or omitted from the Bible. You’ve asked good questions. I think it will be enjoyable to dialogue with you, and am looking forward to your response. Thanks, eric, for responding to me. I promise to do the best I can for you.

          • MrCrusha

            Couldn’t have been stated better! This is my stance as well.

          • G W

            NOT one thing written in the Holy Bible has ever been disproved. NOT ONE WORD! To say otherwise is the ultimate LIE. The problem is you think you have it ALL figured out, when in fact you are a lost soul. Whether you know it or not you are following a religion called humanism. It says I can do life by myself under my own selfish rules and I don’t believe in my Creator or want to follow HIS rules. It is a LIE from Hell as old as mankind. Have you ever heard of Quantum Physics? Science has proven there are many more dimensions in this universe then your current reality. FACT; This world was made by an intelligent, all powerful, all knowing SPIRIT Being which religious people call God and Christians believe is Jesus Christ (God in the Flesh). Here is The Gospel; God the Father loves you even in your sin and stupidity. God loves you so deep that HE sent HIS Son Jesus into this world two thousand years ago to pay the price for ALL sinners, for ALL time. Jesus is a Holy Gods’ gift to humanity. Jesus is the only way to be reconciled unto God because The Holy Father said so. IF you continue to rant and rave about how there are so many unbelievers who support your unbelief, and IF you continue to follow that LIE unto death then guess what YOU LOSE!!!! LOST FOREVER, FOREVER SEPARATED from your CREATOR. Do you think that is unfair? It is not unfair because you were offered God’s free pass to Heaven, HIS Son Jesus Christ and you spit on HIM. Who is gonna feel sorry for you now? Do you think any of your heathen friends are gonna care that you went to Hell especially since you did not have to go there? It is NOT a fairy-tale my friend. IT IS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH. It is GODs’ TRUTH and it is HIS TRUTH which is the standard that HIS creation must OBEY. You cannot go thru life living by your own rules and not take ownership of it. If you go thru life following the lie of humanism, atheism, or any other ism YOU ARE LOST and a FOOL. I didn’t say it, God said it thru HIS Word the Holy Bible. Consider it an owners manual on how to live your life. To reject your Creators’ advice on how to live your life clean before HIM, is just being foolish. God exist whether you believe HIM or not. You mentioned universities and museums? Do you really believe that the world was made in a big bang? or your ancestors were apes? That is harder to believe then creation by Intelligent Design. Be a free thinker and seek spiritual truth over a foolish atheist professors confusion. Nowhere in this world are you allowed to make up your own rules and live life according to your own morality without consequences. What makes you think that you are gonna play that selfish game without future consequences? Christianity is not a religion but a personal relationship with your Creator. Jesus was a real man (historical fact) who showed us how to be reconciled to God the Father and showed people how a redeemed man or woman could walk in Gods’ righteousness. He then gave his life for yours so that you would not have to stand alone, guilty before a Holy God. You see whether you stick your head in the sand and continue the mantra that there is no god, There is a God. HE is the Almighty KING of the Universe. That is the Ultimate Truth. Let God be true and every man a liar. You will either embrace God and HIS Eternal Life or reject Gods’ Truth for a Lie and spend eternity separated from Him where nobody wants to go. The choice is all yours. I hope you choose Eternal Life.

          • Michael

            lol

          • Brownthumb

            You obviously have a very closed and ill informed mind. Archaeological evidence shows that there never was a race of Hebrew slaves in Egypt. So the entire Moses story must then be false. For centuries, people have searched for Noah’s ark , yet it has not been found, and in searching for evidence to support the Noah story, it has been discovered that there was no ” worldwide” flood that lasted a year. No area has ever been found to have been flooded for a year, much less the entire world. So again it’s obvious that this story never happened either. Then there is the problem of nothing in the bible having being proven true. Your rant is both sad and ridiculous.

          • John M Jensen

            You have no idea what you are talking about. Geologic and Oceanographic anomalies show factual evidence of a serious flooding event almost exactly 7,000 years ago. 25′ tsunami debris fields on the coast of Ireland and Scotland, the Storegga Underwater landslide, breach of the Bosporus Straight, tsunami field 24 miles inland of Galveston Bay, drowning of the Dogger Banks, birth of Niagara and Minnesota Falls, salt encrustation line in the Queens Chamber of the Great Pyramid, as well as a salt encrustation line at 254′ height on the outside limestone casing, a 26′ tsunami debris field in Chile, breach of the Laurantide lake into the Mississippi delta, ALL except the Pyramid salt lines dated to exactly 7,000 years before present. A cataclysm occurred at that date, without question, accompanied by a global flood of unimaginable proportions. Before pontificating, you aught to acquaint yourself with the facts.

          • Brownthumb

            I am well acquainted with the “facts”, and even the pseudoscience of some of your claims about salt lines on the pyramids which are actually encrustations on the inside of the pyramids which are natural weepings from the limestone, not sea salt. As for your other “7000″ year ago claims, sure, there were localized floods all over from time to time. Yet with your claimed linked events, some happened 6900 years ago, some 7200, not in sync as you wish to claim. While there is evidence of localized events, some catastrophic, there is no evidence that there was a global flood. Also, the comment was on the validity of the bible and it’s stories. The biblical flood would have been about 4400 years ago, so why your rant about some events from 7000 years ago would even apply I don’t know. Perhaps before you whine and rant you should check your sources and their claims against real scientific investigations. Nothing is “without question”, even your obvious bias. Give me real facts, peer reviewed research and true evidence to work with and I’m open to changing my thoughts or beliefs. Quote events from 7000 years ago claiming fact when the scientific community does not agree and I lose all respect for your claims.

          • John M Jensen

            What a dipweed. Personal attacks is not peer rebuttal. Personal claims and disclaimers are not of value, when not substantiated. Whats funny, is that the scientific ‘community’, whatever that means, doesn’t agree on much when it comes to ‘historical’ sciences. But the Storegga event is peer reviewed to ad nausea, (Google it, snark) as is the the breach of the Bosporus, (Google that too) the tsunami debris piles, inundation of the Dogger Banks and the regression dating of Niagara and Minnesota Falls. Each of those events have been 14c tested to a degree that would embarass Ex-Lax.

            The ocean rise of 195′ between 11,200 and 7,000 years ago, called the Third Meltwater Pulse is also well established and well peer reviewed.

            Your childish explanation of a salt incrustation ‘line’ as being a natural ‘weeping’ effect is so weak it is laughable. If a natural effect, it would not be a line, but randomly spread out, which is not the case. It is an actual level line, originally up to about an inch thick, cleaned off after Piazza Smith because of its embarrassment to your so-called scientific community. I suppose, like all naysayers, you discount the Valley of the Whales as being ‘millions of years old’. Just like the more than 47 recent (generally Russian) 14c dating of partial or whole non-fossilized dinosaur bones. I won’t even quote the dates they returned, but they all were late Pleistocene. Go Google it. You recognize of course, I said ‘non-fossilized’ bones, that means they are ‘recent’ by definition. ‘Elastic collagen and hemoglobin elements’, (which is tissue and blood cells) discovered in a T-Rex hind limb bone by Dr. Mary Schwietzer lays waste the entire fiction of “…65 million years ago the dinosaurs went extinct.” Mid sized dinosaurs didn’t go extinct until well into the Holocene. Small dinosaurs are still alive today. We just call them different names. Alligators, Lizards, Whales, Sharks, etc. Also Falcons, Eagles, Owls, Chickens which are just small Raptors.

            Sorry about your lack of evidence, my facts are extracted from scientific peer reviewed information. All of which are available to anyone that will take the time to Google any one of them.

            Just because your so called ‘community’ is losing its cherished gradualism perspective by the oppressive weight of pure factual evidence, does not mean there isn’t a place for your quaint views. Its right up there alongside the religious nut jobs that expound equal nonsense on the reverse side of the coin. Both of you are whack jobs, and always have been.

            And now Physics is beginning the long march toward sanity by their sideways announcement that ‘Well, Maybe, uh….stutter, uh, hmnn…maybe, the recent overunity demonstration at JPL just might mean, er….maybe….that G force (Gravity) is actually, I mean, ummm… “attenuated” or variable….” Newtonian Physics a bust? Tell me it ain’t so, Joe.” Looks like Einstein might end up being the charlatan that Tesla said he was, after all. Of course, brilliant EE’s since Tesla’s time have known that all along. It’s actually the 21st century dipweed. We have a collective neural network of global information. Use it. Its called the internet. You and your cherished ‘peer reviewed’ process can be accomplished by any 14 year old with a modem and a modicum of curiosity. You are actually the dinosaur. Loud, ugly personal attacks don NOT facts make. You are so out of date, you smell like my grandpas puke vest.

          • Brownthumb

            Are insults and dishonesty really how you believe you can spread the word of your god?

            A sea level rise of 195′ is not a worldwide flood that would wipe out all life and deposit a 500′ ark 6000 ft up the side of a mountain. Again, the biblical timeline shows the Noah story to have happened about 4400 years ago, so ranting about events occurring between 7000 and 12,000 years ago does not support the Noah’s ark story. If you want to claim something true, then it must be true as is, not twisted and changed into something that might be somewhat similar to a dreamed up event if you change facts to suit yourself. Try a little integrity now and then.

            I don’t need to research anything else you’ve claimed. Nothing you said changes a single point that I made about the invalidity of biblical stories nor does it support them. If the time is off by 3000 years then it cannot be the same event, if your rant on sea levels shows a 195′ rise, that is not a global flood necessitating an ark to preserve life. The statement I made on the salt inside the pyramids is accurate, no matter what you wish to claim otherwise. If you need to turn to insults and rude behavior to support your faith, to me it’s not a faith worth having to begin with. Once again, I will say outright that cataclysmic events have happened in all parts of the world. This does not mean you can then just string things together in a completely different timeline from that of the bible and claim it supports the biblical events. Try honesty out for a change.

            Rant all you wish about science, even if science was wrong about everything, there is still zero evidence to support the existence of any god, and no evidence that any story in the bible is true at all. Again, the Moses story is obviously false, the Noah story is ridiculous. How did marsupials come to be only on Australia? India and Africa both have zones of climate that would support them and in which they could thrive, yet if they came off a boat as is in Turkey, how is it that they only exist on one island across an Ocean and no where else on the planet? The entire story is a joke.

          • John M Jensen

            Just keep your tinfoil hat on. I did not, nor do I advocate for either Biblical or Scientific accuracy. Both are wrong as far as I am concerned. About as wrong as your assertions “there is nothing to support the existence of any God….” You can’t prove that. It is a negative. Besides, any competent Physics scientist will tell you that ‘Absence of Evidence, is NOT Evidence of Absence, as your argument tends to suggest. I will let you describe to me the miracle of a blade of grass, and how, under any scenario you choose, you nor anyone else has ever been able to bring into being a single cell of organic life. You have no clue how its made, not the slightest, nor how sentient life springs forth spontaneously, yet you decry a creator as effortlessly as if you had the tiniest clue what you are talking about. And please don’t babble about DNA, blah…blah. You are a know nothing stuffed shirt, blathering about things you know nothing about.

            You have no experiential evidence to support your claim. None. You are just making wild unsubstantiated claims with no proof whatsoever. And is so doing, you are no better than the believers you castigate.

            Life in all its myriad forms is much more complicated than any of us could begin to fathom.

            I am against Religion making any claim to ownership of any data based on a belief system, and I hold the same standard to Science, but that being said, I am not dumb enough to not do the research, and finding which of the historical references in the Bible are generally true. Moses was a living breathing human being, outside of the Bible. He did have a General named Joshua, and did raize upper Palestine and what is now the Becca Valley. Those are historical facts. Moses lived about 3,600 years ago and his exploits are well documented outside of a Biblical context. The remnants of the city of Giants, ‘Bashan’ still exists today, in the shadows of Mt Hermon. The giants (inhabitants of Bashan) were hunted to near extinction by Joshua. And those are historical facts. Contrary to your close held (incorrect) beliefs, there is a lot more recorded history than just the Hebrew Bible’s Old Testiment.

          • Brownthumb

            Dude, you need serious help, especially as this began as you attacking me for pointing out fallacies in the bible you claim you don’t believe in.

            As for my “assertion” that there is no evidence to support the existence of a god, my “experiential evidence” is that there is none, and I make the statement more as a challenge than a claim to begin with. As of yet, no one has been able to come forward with anything other than their personal beliefs or some silly biblical quote and neither of those is evidence of anything, it would be like me quoting Harry Potter books to support the existence of magic.

            Science can make mistakes, learn and evolve as new evidence comes forth. That is the difference between science and religion. One can admit error and learn from it, the other has to continually claim that it cannot be wrong and is incapable of growth or change. i do not “worship” science, I only accept the evidence it offers. Science does not claim or try to prove that a god doesn’t exist. However, the scientific method can be used by individuals in their quests to define what they are willing to believe in. I simply refuse to believe claims of god, bigfoot, alien abductions and so forth without adequate evidence to support those claims.

            Again, you apparently are allowed to quote science in sea level rises and such research while attempting to belittle another, completely disregarding the biblical timeline and the fact that those studies you refer to do not support any global flood that would have decimated life. Since you cannot back up your attack with reason, you ramble on about other subjects, those never raised by me in my challenge about biblical accuracy, and think yourself a good and just person in doing so. I think you an idiot. You have yet to refute anything I said in my comment on biblical fallacies yet you continue your attack, making assumption after assumption about me and my beliefs in doing so, never once attempting to remain within the realm of honesty and integrity, throwing all honor out the window from the outset. I don’t claim to know more than I do, I do research others claims when pertinent to my interests and I strive to be as honest as possible. My statements about the biblical stories being myth rather than fact and that the current evidence shows them false is true to the best of my knowledge and what I can research. Pointing out a sea level rise of 195′ 7000 years ago does not change the bible’s claim that a worldwide flood wiped out all life 4400 years ago, nor does it offer any evidence to the contrary of my statements. I guess you will continue your personal assault now since you cannot offer any evidence contrary to my statement.

            If you honestly believe there is evidence to support the existence of a god, please submit it. I cannot understand why you’d abhor religion yet attack anyone who spoke out against it.

          • John

            Its best to stop arguing with people who cannot see. The bible says they are spiritually blind to the truth. Its like arguing with a blind person about what color the sky is.; if he has never seen the light of day then he knows not of what he speaks. “The fool has said in his heart there is no God” Arguing will change nothing and no one it only serves to feed to egos as to who’s the most intelligent or so called enlightened one. The evidence by far historically and scientifically validates scripture, but the God of this world “Satan” has blinded the eyes of those that want self rule and glorification. believers are mocked today the same as Jesus was mocked and ridiculed at his crucifixion. Its sad, but it continues after 2000 years. Maybe some would benefit by reading a couple of books by reformed (Or converted) atheist Lee Strobell (sp?) “The case for faith” and “The case for Christ” He, a journalist and atheists, became a Christian after trying to debunk the Bible. Interesting reading.

          • Brownthumb

            If you’re going to use just the bible for your information and truths, perhaps you should use the entire thing. 1 Peter 3:15-16 instructs Christians to answer all questions, giving reason for the hope and faith they hold,and to do so with courtesy and respect. That does not mean “stop arguing”, it does not mean to threaten hell on others, it does not mean to belittle or call names, it means to give answers to any who question or present differing views and to be courteous about it.

            Tom Clancy novels have real history and locations in them, does that mean they are true? Just because the bible mentioned real places and a few real people does not mean it is true. Read some of the commands your ‘god’ gave you in the old testament, which according to Christ himself in the book of Matthew are still in effect, until both heaven and earth disappear (note, the earth is still here so all the old laws are still in effect). Then see if that is a being you would want to worship. Not just the 10 commandments, but all 613 of them.

            A person might claim they were an Atheist until such and such, but I won’t believe a skeptic changed his mind so easily. I would never willingly worship a god who believed human sacrifice was how forgiveness was granted, much less the sacrifice of anyone other than the person who committed the transgression. I would never willingly worship the god described in the old testament and truly hope that I’m right that such a petty and murderous being does not exist.

          • MrCrusha

            “Its like arguing with a blind person about what color the sky is.; if he has never seen the light of day then he knows not of what he speaks.”

            You do realize that you are contradicting yourself right…. If you have never seen evidence of an afterlife whether it be heaven or hell then how can YOU state that it exists?

            Please keep in mind that this comment is coming from someone that doesn’t believe in religion but believes in living a life that consists of caring for loved ones and doing the right thing.

            I think the biggest problem that people have with those that follow the Bible is that they blindly follow what others have put into it as a story. As stated here in many comments there are too many contradictions to what we know (humans) as being the right thing to do to or for others.

          • Keet Hensley

            Obviously you don’t do your homework in the real worlds books, everything you said is outright LIES.

          • Brownthumb

            Calling me a liar does not change the truth. If you are in possession of evidence or can cite references to evidence supporting the biblical stories I stated to be false, please do so. I will research it (Fleming et al. 1998, Fleming 2000 studies on sea level rises do not constitute a worldwide flood and they are the closest I could find, even if thousands of years off the biblical timeline) and if it turns out to be true, I will happily recant, as I do try to use integrity and be honest in my statements. I have researched it, I challenge you to offer any evidence showing the entire bible to be true. Or you can continue being dishonest and calling those who challenge your beliefs liars and hiding behind your blinders.

          • Keet Hensley

            Time to play switch, the Thumb has soaked up enough flavor. Sad little man throwing a tantrum.

          • Kay Briskey

            G. W.: How many times did you and I hear a preacher or Sunday School teacher caution us to carefully interpret scripture and not to read our own meaning into it? Growing up listening to Sunday School teachers and listening to sermons was the way we acquired our knowledge of scripture. Sure makes one wonder how some on this site came to their misinterpretations.

          • porterp74

            The god mentioned on your money is Satan, that is who the elite worship. The bible is a history book, as other holy scriptures from other religions, they describe the same events in theri own ways. Ancient aliens created humanity by helping early man’s evolution with DNA manipulation. They are our gods, and were responsible for the ancient monuments too. These gods bread with humans and created Royalty, their offspring rule us today.

          • Laureen Acton

            Get away with our lies??? Really?? What in the hell makes you think that you’re the authority over anything here Charli?? For someone who doesn’t believe in God or the Bible or “our lies” you sure are upset about them. What kind of mentally ill person gets upset over something that he doesn’t believe in?? Oh and Charli, a little advice: if you don’t want to hear about or have our religion pushed on you then stay the hell off of religous sights, pretty simple solution to YOUR problem !!!!

          • Sean Michael Parsons

            It is you and you are an idiot.

          • M.
          • Randy Cadmus

            Snopes can’t be trusted its politically a left wing organization.

          • misterbuckethead .

            Please tell me you’re joking. you’re saying snopes, an objectivity based website devoted to stopping the spread of misinformation like this ‘discovery’ while on joeforamerica, one of the most lampooned, biased, and pandering websites on the internet? just wow. it even says right on the page… geologists from Andrew A. Snelling of Answers in Genesis to Lorence G. Collins of California State University Northridge’s Department of Geological Sciences have debunked the notion of Durupinar site as containing anything more than a completely natural geologic rock formation.

          • lincolnkreifels

            snopes is run by a man and a woman with no background in investigation using google.

          • Randy Furlotte

            Well Noah didn’t have a background in ark building!

          • lincolnkreifels

            Noah didn’t have a website heralded as the go-to for ark building.

          • Garrett

            FYI, Snopes was proven to be a mom and pa operation. Yes you heard it, a couple who do this out of their house in their spare time. They have no crew to disprove any claims, just these two people who work and do this on the side as a hobby. They also are die hard democrats. You don’t have to believe me, research it.

          • Kay Briskey

            I had no need to research Snopes, Garrett, and surely many others came to the same conclusion after noting Snopes debunks anything anti-liberal.

          • Carl Wyble

            Actually, the husband is a registered Republican.

            http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/internet/a/snopes_exposed.htm

          • GeorgeHarris7

            Does that really mean anything, Carl? What party one is registered for does not necessarily have any validity.
            I am a registered Democrat, who has not voted for a Democrat except in the primaries. I voted for Hillary, instead of Obama, because I thought she had the best chance to lose to McCain.

          • Cyndeewi

            You really need some education slick! The two people that created Snopes are not democrats. The wife is Canadian and therefore cannot vote in the US. The husband was a registered republican turned independent. Snopes has been fact checked and found not to be bias toward any party. You republicans never do any research.

          • linreis

            And, unfortunately, we can count on you democrats to completely be off the track of what is being discussed. and then when that fails, you start your name calling and innuendo…

          • Cyndeewi

            Slick is not name calling. I say that to my son when he is trying to be slick. Grow up and get a life. Rethug!

          • linreis

            like I am supposed to know that? hello! this is a c o m p u t e r…

          • Cyndeewi

            Was I originally commenting on something you wrote….No…Now go kiss yourself Slick!

          • londontubes

            Just Googled ‘Lorence G. Collins’ http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bio.htm Off of this website: “Challenging dogma has always been something I have enjoyed doing,
            not only in geology but also in regards to religion; see my web site
            challenging creationism: http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/creation.html (Creation web
            site).”

            Not a totally neutral observer.

          • Randy Cadmus

            You took the bucket off. Place it back on your head. Are you telling me tha google gives us free search tools out of the kindness of its heart?

          • Carlos Pereira

            And I suppose joeforamerica.com is neutral and unbias? I don’t think so. Fail, try again.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            Er, Um, “Two wrongs don’t make a right” – Right? Even if your “Wrong” is less wrong than his “Wrong” they’re both still “Wrong”. Get it?

          • CDextrous

            *you’re

          • mzungu

            With all due respect sir this website is an example of freedom of speech. We need to spend more effort on neutrality of MSNBC and all the other networks that hundreds of millions are watching. This website, in the scheme of things, is like sidewalk chalk art in one school in America it does not claim to represent all ‘art’. A giant middle finger down on your opinion.

          • buggs

            not hundred of millions , new pole ,as of 1/1/14…
            msnbc at any givin time only has a max of around 450 k cnn a little more ,, but fox has more than the two combined, . but mater not , just wanted to set the record right !

          • Randy Cadmus

            And your argument is what? Even a broken clock is right twice a day? Your an idiot. There’s more evidence that it is there than it’s not. Stop obfuscating.

          • linreis

            what is biased about this article? its not political, not even religious…come on carlos, look at something without your own bias for a change.

          • marcyharris92

            Funded by Ananberg–same group that paid for Obama and his buddy Ayers to “reform” Chicago education. Very far left and also anti-religion.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Agreed

          • Carl Wyble

            http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/internet/a/snopes_exposed.htm

            Snopes is owned, funded and operated by a married couple in SoCal. Oh, and the husband, at least, is on record as being a registered Republican. So much for the assuming and the finger pointing. Sometimes, what you want to believe and the factual truth are two completely different things.

          • Charles Cox

            But known con-artist Ron Wyatt can be trusted?

          • tacos4me

            Like this article, your statement is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read.

          • linreis

            ??

          • Carolyn Bryant Schaub

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RUWxK4EW4
            Video that shows what Snopes is alleging as false.

          • God

            Sooooo…what exactly is Snopes alleging that is false? What a bunch of garbage. Snake oil in a bottle…

            Don’t forget, I’ve got my unicorn listed on Craigslist.

          • mzungu

            Snopes is alleging that Noah’s Ark is real but this evidence is not. ;)
            I have to say that because no other authority is cited with a link or anything. Snopes has to stop being self-referential….as a matter of fact Liberals need to stop being self-referential.

          • God

            That doesn’t make them wrong – it makes them uncited. If you doubt the validity of their claim – do the research your self and you will arrive at the same conclusion.

            The claim is under suspicion initially due to who the claimant is – Ron Wyatt – who singlehandedly discovered just about every other religious artifact while on vacations, something archeologists haven’t been able to do for centuries, full time, with lots of money. There is reason to be skeptical.

            Add in that every person who appeared in his accompanying video release has been very outspoken about Ron Wyatt being a complete fraud. Add in the pseudo-science (he uses some fairly technical words to describe what is basically a divining rod hooked up to batteries to make some of his ‘detected metals’ claims).

            And if you are making the claim that somebody is wrong simply because they are liberal, then the claim can be made that somebody is wrong simply because they are conservative. And if both can be made, then both statements are equally true (whether they actually be true or not is of little consequence – it’s that they are equally true that matters). And if both statements are true, then you both are wrong, and those of us who are neither liberal nor conservative remain the only ones left to be right.

            And beings that I think anybody who believes crap like the above fairy tale is pretty much batsh** crazy, and I’m one of the only ones left to be right, then I am right and you are all batsh** crazy.

          • steve crane

            Ps. 14:1; Ps. 53:1 “The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God.”

          • Is this better?

            Quoting scripture to an atheist….

            Yeah, you’re an extra special kind of retard.

          • steve crane

            You atheist have a new national holiday? Have you heard of it? It is on April 1! “Fools Day” You better go get saved man! I am a fool for Christ, whose fool are you?

          • Is this better?

            So, under that description, I guess every day is your holiday?

            He that CANNOT reason is a fool. He that WILL NOT is a bigot. He that DARE NOT is a slave.
            Andrew Carnegie

          • G W

            Only a FOOL says “There is no God” They are corrupt.
            The Psalmist 14:1

          • Is this better?

            Only a dumb@ss quotes scripture to an atheist.

          • G W

            Why do you care FOOL?

          • Is this better?

            Appears you’re talking to yourself in your other post.

          • livn4 god05

            You have more faith in this man named Andrew Carnegie? I can tell you it wasn’t Andrew who healed my son when he had a mass. Completely gone with no trace the moment he was born per my prayer for the last 6 mos of my pregnancy as I stared at the sonogram every week that showed this mass inside my poor baby. No Andrew is just a man who makes mistakes as you and I everyday. But my
            God… infallible

          • Is this better?

            Look – I’m happy your son was born without any defects – truly – it’s sad that any kids are born with defects, but do you think that some of them had mothers that prayed too?

            Yes, we all make mistakes. And your god…oh boy…your god as about as infallible a system of justice as a turkey has webbed feet for swimming. Did you read the OT? Raping a son with a wine bottle? Killing off whole cities. Wars. And even the NT – commit rape, just do 10 our fathers. Commit murder? Just a few hail mary’s. Steal from the poor? A little time with the priest will send you straight to heaven. But don’t believe in god..oh no, that’s eternal damnation and burning in a fiery pit of doom. Really? What about the millions of people who came before the jews? What about all the other religions? What about the millions of people who had never heard of JC and the boys before christianity was more accepted? Infallible? Nope – as fallible as man, because that’s who came up with the whole concept in the first place. If it does you good to believe in god, good for you. But blindly following the bigotry – that’s nonsense.

            Life your life and be a good person so when you get old enough to look back you can say you were and be happy knowing that. Learn what you can – the universe is AMAZING – so much to learn, so much to investigate. Other galaxies, other worlds, maybe other life forms. And we’re here for just a short time of it. Don’t just close your eyes to it all. That would be the biggest waste of all.

          • livn4 god05

            This conversation wasn’t to degrade one anothers belief or call each other names. You amaze me with all these topics you rampaged about, and im not being sarcastic. I honestly wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I carried all this weight of “Why’s” as you do. You make me realize how grateful I am to live in my little “God fearing” bubble. Yes you think it’s a fairytale, and to be honest it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It only matters if my faith works, and it does everytime. I know loss I know pain I know worry, fear, and failure, but I also know a peace that passes all understanding. Life in general was never a promise of success and pefection …by far…. foolish to believe so,But believe in a God makes it worth it all cause feeling peace in a time of turmoil or joy in a time of sadness can’t be bought aor found anywhere else. It’s what gets us through the terrible unjust system we have going in this world today. In all sincerity, I can only pray that God would become real to you in a way that only you would know. It’s not your job to question why God spared my son over someone elses son, nor is it mine. I can’t tell you all my prayers have been answered either. What gets us through the hardships of life is God’s peace. I don’t want to ramble on about something you have Cleary made your mind up to not see or believe. But aren’t you the least but curious about this God stuff? I mean you were drawn to this site somehow in all your unbelief. I ask you to do a favor for yourself, and try once and ask God to show you if he is real, and you may laugh at me but beware don’t ask unless you really want to know. :)

          • Is this better?

            I was “drawn” to this article because I thought it would be funny, and then the comments made me sad…

            You say a belief in god lets you sleep at night. Good for you. The same non-belief in god lets me sleep at night. That you require a feeling of being watched over – in a sense, a protector – is your own mechanism for self-healing. I don’t see that as a bad thing, and if it helps you, great. What bothers me is people making judgements on others – like sinners and looking down on them and telling them they are going to burn for eternity, etc.

            To answer your question – no, I am not the least curious about your god. To me, god is simply a conjured fictional fairy tale meant to control the uneducated peasants in times fast, and is a held-on-to belief – whether it be fear or, like you, a feeling of comfort or whatever – it serves me no purpose. I live in a very real world which I make scientific sense out of. I’m not going to live in Plato’s cave.

          • Wes Edwards

            Your interpretations of Bible content is ridiculous and laughable and most of your acrimony originates with Roman Catholic Church faith. Try using a little logic to separate out thoughts before you make such ignorant statements on the web.

          • Is this better?

            I try to keep my comments on par with the the ridiculous nature of the bible. Logic isn’t a requirement for christian beliefs – I wouldn’t want to stress your widdle pea-headed brain cell.

          • linreis

            apparently your own life requires little logic as well…the ‘nature of the Bible’ describes the life of a man who lived his life preaching love of fellow man, no matter, preaching a promise of God’s love and an everlasting life with Him. A man who was tortured and died the most horrific death of those times, because of God’s promise to the people. A Man, who lived as a man, and died as a Savior. It is you who needs to educate yourself on the Nature of The Bible.

          • Is this better?

            Apparently, you forgot to read leviticus. You are seriously brain-F’d.

          • linreis

            no need to resort to vulgarity. I don’t appreciate it. If you can’t have any sort of conversation without it that is just a sad statement of your character, it adds nothing and it certainly takes away your credibility… try the New Testament.

          • Is this better?

            True – I probably used bad terminology there. Brain-washed. I was watching the Blazer game….it was probably a matter of bad timing.

          • linreis

            ‘timing’ good or bad is more of a ‘luck’ thing…nothing to do with manners.

          • Is this better?

            Pot: Kettle, you’re black.

          • linreis

            whatever IS, you have proven yourself to be unworthy of my time…but what if I’m right? what if I’m just the teensiest bit right? have you ever been wrong before?

          • Is this better?

            Attempting to force belief out of fear..tsk tsk. Dead is dead, end of story. I’ll not waste what little time we have to be alive worrying about pleasing imaginary beings – life is too precious not to live in the reality of what it is.

          • linreis

            force? fear? you are worried about ‘what little time you have left’ and you are ‘wasting’ it on this site? LOL, that really is priceless. Don’t bother to respond…I wouldn’t want to ‘force’ you to read another view of the future.

          • Is this better?

            “What if I’m just the teensiest bit right?” That is a model of persuasion by fear. Similar to the “If you don’t believe in god you will burn in hell for all eternity” stupidity.

            I never said “what little time I have left” – I said “what little time we have to be alive” and there’s a very big difference. If you want to waste your life and go to church and lie to each other every sunday – have at it. But I think it’s sad that so many people dismiss reality in favor of one of the dumbest lies ever told. Go back to your cave and watch the shadows on the wall, clasp your hands together and talk to the sky being, whom you can’t see, can’t touch, can’t feel, and live your life in a blanket of self-serving lies because your afraid that reality is just too much for you to handle.

          • linreis

            you seem to have a need to continue what you see as an assault on your time, but just can’t let it go, can you? you just can’t except the fact that I believe in, and trust my God…but its funny, I prayed for the right words to say to you, and this is the Bible verse He showed me: Its from 1st Corinthians, 13 vs 6-7. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
            BTW: even the devil believes in God…all you have to do to have an eternity with God is to accept that Jesus is your Savior! That He’d died for your sins is the gift, you have to accept that with your heart in humbleness. God doesn’t expect perfection from any of us, He knows we are human, and His Son, Jesus paid our price for our entry to Heaven. We will all see Him one day, for He has promised to return for us all. God Bless you, and I hope, some day you will look back at our conversation, and listen with your heart to what many of us have been trying to convey.

          • Is this better?

            *yaaaawwwwwn* Tell your unicorns hi for me.

          • daniel buck

            I have to say, it sounds more like you were hurt by the Catholic church than actually having taken a look at the Bible with an open mind over the scope of the entire book. The actual penalties for the actions you described were a lot harsher than what you said, and you always have to keep in mind, even if (perhaps especially if) you are an atheist…we have free will. I don’t have all the answers to all your questions, especially about people who had no opportunity to learn about Christ, but I do know that my God has proven faithful, true, and just over and over.

          • Is this better?

            You just don’t get it. I don’t believe in the magic man in the sky theory. The universe is too vast and there are too man unknowns, too man planets, too many stars. I don’t have to keep an open mind – man created god in place of real answers. Children believe in fairy tales – adults should know better.

          • daniel buck

            You say yourself there are too many unknowns, too many planets, too many stars…so how can you try to deny people the right to believe in one of those infinite possibilities? I’m not saying you have to believe in God, in fact, as I said, I believe that God gives you that right to choose. Also, I don’t believe in a “magic man in the sky” either, at least not when you term it like that. I believe in a God who can be described and known, to a certain extent, and who knows me.

            I’m not going to try to convince you via this forum that you should come to share my beliefs, but don’t you dare have the audacity to say that no should listen to Christians (or any other theists) and everyone should only listen to people who believe similarly to you. I respect you because you are a person, and I’m willing to hear what you have to say. The least you could do is return the favor. We all have the opportunity to choose what we believe, and if I am going to try to share what I’ve found with someone else, I will happily do it, but not online and not by beating them over the head with it (Him).

          • linreis

            magic has nothing to do with believing in God…so I take it, you believe you came from a monkey, and that’s ok, because I believe it too…(that YOU came from a monkey that is)

          • Is this better?

            We shared a common ancestor with monkeys, yes. We also share a common ancestor with horses, although much more distant. We also share a common ancestor with every single mammal on the planet, and probably the vast majority of fish.

            We all came from a common origin. But if you didn’t and you want to believe you came from mud, I’ll assume you mean man-mud, which I could totally believe is your origins.

          • linreis

            I believe we are decedents from the families who built and lived on the Ark…human beings

          • Is this better?

            Fictional beings? So you believe you’re a fictional being….

          • theoneandonlyme2

            I always find it interesting that atheist are always reading material and visiting websites and forums that are based on the belief that God is real. It seems as if they in truth are seeking out the very thing they say they do not believe in…

          • livn4 god05

            There is no such thing as an “Atheist” . Let’s call it for what it really is….a person who spends there whole life being angry at the very One who they say they don`t believe in. I’m so sorry for whatever is that you hold God accountable for
            My God is an Awesome God. And I.’ ‘ll Shout it from the rooftops. I will pray for you “is this better”, and you can’t stop me:)

          • Is this better?

            Look dumdum, I really just don’t believe in a magic man in the sky, k? You can believe in whatever fairy tales you want to, but don’t tell me what I believe or how I feel, that’s just stupid. Magic underwear, unicorns, supreme beings – those aren’t real, dear.

            Don’t you find it odd that jews waited thousands of years for a messiah, only to blink and then go “ooops, maybe next time”? Explain asteroids, other planets, other galaxies, the thousands of religions that have existed throughout hostory

          • livn4 god05

            By the way, the Jews…..how funny you mention them being that they are in the Bible, missed the boat boat becase they were to smart for their own britches. As it is known Jesus was a Jew, the jews being highly educated and much more worthy as far as knowledge goes, refused to believe he was the Messiah. The gentiles were considered the low class, and completely uneducated, had nothing to hold them back from believing that he was the One prophecied to come. And as it is written they were the ones that Jesus saves not because he was partial, or bitter, to the jews response but He can only be apart of one who believes. The Jws had to much pride in their own wisdom to believe but the gentiles who hhad nothing to lose could only hope of such a magnificent encounter with e true God. Funny how history repeats itself.
            Just fyi. P.s dinosaurs? You don’t know why they existed and are non existing now? Where have you been my friend? It seems your well acquainted with the internet enough to look this up. News has been out for decades.

          • Is this better?

            If the world is only 6000 years old, how did dinosaurs exist?

            Funny how it is the ‘uneducated’ who believed in JC…weird how that works, eh?

          • libsrretards

            6000 years old? your time is off son. A type of dinosaur is mentioned in the Bible in the book of Job. idiot

          • Is this better?

            LOL. So now dinosaurs lived in the time of Noah? LMAO. You people get dumber and dumber and dumber……….

          • linreis

            the dinosaurs world was destroyed. don’t presume someone is uneducated because they don’t agree with your small view of creation.

          • Is this better?

            Not so much – many dinosaurs evolved into birds. With science – they can even be unevolved into dinosaurs. The genetics of it all is amazing.

            My “small view of creation”? LMAO. I believe creation happens at all times in a multi-verse that is unfathomably unending – nothing small about it, that’s for sure.

          • linreis

            you are arguing amongst yourself…and losing. I said their world was destroyed. The world has been destroyed a couple of times now, the comet, the flood…both have scientific back up… there are reptiles alive today that are distant relatives of the dinosaur…

          • Is this better?

            There is, nor has there ever been, evidence of a worldwide flood. Period. There have been localized floods – as the evidence of the land mass separation allowing the Med Sea to join with the Atlantic Ocean, but there is no physical evidence of a worldwide flood. Period.

            There are animals that survived – for example, crocodiles, which lived with dinosaurs, and are still around and going strong. In a sense, they ARE dinosaurs, though not the ones you see in the movies.

            What exactly am I losing? Your argument is based on the flawed premise of somehow validating a man written book as the word of a flawless god-being who somehow made flawed likenesses of himself, and yet, is still flawless. Like your argument, your narcissistic self-absorption is impeding the ability to see clearly, and really, you’re making yourself look even dumber by attempting to shout victory, when you can’t even logically define victory in this sense.

          • Is this better?

            LOL. The stupid uneducated who had nothing to do believed in JC. Those with education said “this is bunk.”

            LOLOLOLOLOL.

            You just proved that fallacy of religion. Good job!

          • livn4 god05

            For someone who has all the questions , seems to act like they have all the answers….how is that? Had you read on about the gentiles you would have known my point. Later after having an encounter with the Lord it was the “uneducated” who spoke fluently in languages that only the educated such as the Jews, knew. Proof that God made the impossible, possible. Let’s not pretend that you haven’t read the Bible, as you keep repeatedly, bringing up Jesus killing babies…. Did you miss all the miracles he performed healing the blind and the lame and the def and the dumb, parting waters to save his ppl from the hand of the enemy, providing Manna out of the heavens, …the list could go on. Your pulling out peices of the Bible that justify your hatred. You can refued all that we proclaim about God, and his word, but the proof that God exist out weighs your disputes 100 mes ove. At the end of theday your te one left with an empty hole in our heart and a hopeless cloud hanging over your head. All this babbling your doing, gccomes from the root of your anger aand you’ll never be able to justify it . I’m baffled at even the simple proofs that God exist, such as the common day rainbow we see after the rain in it’s perfect precise beauty, still has poll running in circles scratching their heads.
            One things for sure unless God hanges your heart you’ll never see the greatness that those that believe in Christ see.
            I can speak for myself that we have all heard your views and your negative feelings towards God and honestly it doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Please find your way off this site. You Cwill never change our hearts and it’s not bigotry, it that we all have evidence that this Jesus stuff is real and some of us are walking proof that this his existence is irrefutable.

          • Is this better?

            blah blah bible says this, bible says that. The bible was written by men who had to control others so that it gave power to them. More politics than anything else. I have no hate – more of a general pity towards idiots who have to try and justify their existence with some purpose other than just that they are alive.

            Incoherent babbling is what you and others like you do, in attempts to prove to themselves that they are more than a meat packet. I have thousands of books proving you’re all a bunch of lunatics, spouting out hate and bigotry and calling it love, because you don’t actually understand that people can be people and don’t need to justify themselves to anyone except themselves.

            All you are walking proof of is that ignorance exists, and that stupidity is a tool easily placed on to the weak minded. I am in control of my life and my actions – you are being controlled by your idiocy.

            If you’re so bent on it, then prove it. Without using the made up bible as a reference, prove your god exists. Go for it.

          • Jamie Huff

            Please live your life in the manner you see fit and stop ridiculing people who don’t agree with you. Do you believe in love? Then you believe in God because God is love. (Actually the book of Job, the oldest book in the Bible, describes a round earth long before mankind found proof of it) I feel pity for you. Where do you think good and evil come from or do you doubt those concepts as well?

          • Is this better?

            Book of Job describes a “circular” earth. A round earth would be a sphere.

            God might be love to you – but no, love to me is something entirely more real than a delusional self thought about about an imaginary magic man in the sky.

            Good/Evil. Yes, I doubt those concepts. They are not “real” in the sense there are not “clouds of evil” or anything like that. They are not tangible. There are mere words describing situations/people/actions.

            I mean seriously – why does your god punish babies for being evil? Seems a bit messed up. Why did you god make you a fallible being knowing you would make mistakes, and then hold you accountable for those mistakes? Think about it – a perfect god that can make a universe is worried about poor little you? Seriously? That is the dumbest joke mankind has ever played on itself.

          • Jamie Huff

            Sorry. I didn’t realize that the most intelligent creature that ever lived was posting on this thread. As I said if you don’t believe then don’t believe. Stop ridiculing the beliefs of others. As I also said I pity you.

          • Is this better?

            Now that you know – I’ll stop making fun of christians and christianity when christians stop attempting to force their ideology and beliefs on to everyone else in the world, and stop trying to make laws the depend solely on their religious beliefs.

            Until then – I’ll make sure and educate all of you on just how stupid your faith is.

          • Jamie Huff

            Nobody is forcing you to do anything. What a poor little baby. Life is hard isn’t it? Don’t always get your way? Why don’t you stamp your wittle feet! Like a crying baby you aren’t happy until you make everyone else miserable.

            I consider your unbelief stupid so I guess we’re at an impasse.

            Sorry you’re a little late on the law making wish because the American legal system is based primarily on Judeo-Christian faith.

            Now go away.

          • Is this better?

            LOL. Wow, how wrong and dumb can you be all in the span of a few short sentences?

            Religious factions are forcing a lot of people to either do or not do a lot of things. It’s only recent history that is progressing beyond those absurdities – like same sex marriage, for example.

            The whole “based on judeo-christian” faith argument. Really? The Constitution is based on common sense and actually ensures the system is NOT based on a faith or religion, including judeo-christian.

            The american legal system is based on individual rights and justice.

            It’s amazing how stuck on yourselves you idiots are.

          • Jamie Huff

            We’re stuck on ourselves? That’s rich. You’re the ones who think the world has to change to make you happy.

            Ain’t. Gonna. Happen.

          • Is this better?

            The world is going to change regardless of your beliefs. It won’t be long now before same-sex marriage will be legal per the Federal Constitution, which will make it unconstitutional for any state to make it illegal.

            That’s only the beginning of the movement away from the rules/regulations in place due to religious idiots incorporating their beliefs into laws – one by one, those laws will be ruled unconstitutional (as they should be).

            Someday christianity will be remembered as the largest populaced cult to have ever existed with the highest percentage of gullible idiots. And you’ll be a member! So you have that going for you.

            Now get back on your coo-coo train.

          • linreis

            because the government says its ok, doesn’t make it right…it makes it legal, not moral…

          • Is this better?

            Religion doesn’t define morality – as a matter of fact, some of the most heinous and immoral acts ever committed by the human race as a species have been done under the guise of religion. So your church doesn’t make it right, legal, or moral, or immoral.

            The mere fact that anyone should have to fight for the legality of what should already be embedded in their very RIGHTS is absolutely disgusting.

          • linreis

            yeah, those pesky Christians, go to your house, or your street and round up all you smart people. then they tie them all up, and make them attend Sunday School…there ought to be a law against that kind of thing…you better quit while you are as smart as you are right now.

          • Is this better?

            Well, actually, they do go to people’s houses. “tie them up and make them attend Sunday School” – well, limiting another’s freedom is that very thing, in a metaphorical sense. It’s a christian ideology to limit same sex marriage (or a general religious argument – if you want to say muslims also frown upon homosexuality – the origins of islam and christianity are essentially the same) and those religious ideologies are pressed upon others in the form of laws – laws forbidding homosexuality, or expressly forbidding same sex marriage. This is where religion has taken the play of free will. That these laws are in fact violations of the Constitution means they will be eventually overturned – but the fact that the laws exist in the first place is reason enough to distrust religious zealots who would press their restrictions onto others to control them.

          • linreis

            and whose freedom is being imposed upon? its not ideology, its belief that homosexual anything is against the Christian belief. Christians are also against murdering unborn babies…the laws say this is fine, but to Christians it is totally immoral…and goal is not to ‘control’ but to enlighten people to the ways of God. God promises any who come to him an everlasting life…the churches, or the Christians do not make the laws, that is your government.
            AND YES, Christians do visit people…they babysit, they dog sit, they even have cook outs with other people…you are phobic, with no reason, I might add.

          • Is this better?

            Well, homosexuals freedom is being imposed upon – by making laws that
            limit their validity in marriage (which is a state term – holy matrimony
            would more correctly identify the religious aspect). That’s just one.

            Was
            it immoral for blacks and whites to have an interracial marriage in the
            50′s? It was illegal in many states, and there are certainly still
            many religious zealots who will still shout that interracial marriage is
            somehow immoral.

            I know several christians who are pro-choice –
            so obviously there is some leeway in determining the moral sanctity of
            abortion. In some cases, like miscarriage – nature does it own
            abortion. Is that immoral? How about other aspects of nature –
            allowing coyotes to kills antelope fawns as the antelope are giving
            birth – is that moral of us?

            Religion is very much about
            control. Religion tells you what not to do, and what to do, how to act,
            and how not to act, with repercussions. Guess what? So does
            government. You say it is “my government” – but it most certainly is
            not. I’m Libertarian, not liberal, dear. There is a very big
            difference. If anything – I’m closer to the right, only without all the
            religious control that goes with the GOP. In other words – I don’t
            want anybody determining what is best for me, except me. The most
            prominent premise of Libertarianism being that do what you think you
            should do, as long as you don’t inflict on the rights of others. There
            isn’t a religion nor a government entity that would follow that one
            simple guideline. Not one. Even Anarchism fails in that aspect.

            What
            exactly am I phobic of? I’m not certainly not phobic of losing an
            afterlife, or eternal sufferance, as I’m quite well aware of the
            impending ending of life at the product of death. I’m certainly not
            phobic of myth and fables, nor fictional literature. If I have anything
            to fear – it’s the herd mentality of congregations of idiots who act
            irrationally, and wield bigotry under hood and cloak, claiming “beliefs”
            as their protector.

          • linreis

            I love that old nonsense. Is, who here is forcing anything on you? are you tied to your chair with your eyes stapled open…and one of these posters are FORCING YOU to read…LOL you are indeed sad.

          • Is this better?

            Religion, in some form or another, oppresses every American. That’s what sad. Well, that and there are adults who still believe in fairy tales and unicorns. It’s debatable which is more sad.

          • livn4 god05

            Noooooo, ….your not angry at God. I mean I would never make such an assumption especially with this line…and I quote “Why did your God make you a fallible being , knowing you would make mistakes and then hold you ccountable for those mistakes”……….
            And why are you hung up on babies? Is this the key to your hatred?

          • Is this better?

            At least try to make some sort of semblance of an argument. Producing incoherent babel isn’t going to generate any kind of discussion except what you’re saying is generally stupid and without any merit whatsoever.

          • livn4 god05

            I just quoted your line …and you said it’s stupid and without any merit…open mouth insert foot eh?

          • Is this better?

            The line you quoted is perfect. It’s your attempt to put together a sensical paragraph that fails. You use a quote from me asking a question that you never answer and attempt to justify anger at an imaginary being, and then suddenly move to inquire about babies as the source of hatred.

            All in all, you failed to form any sort of argument, or even anything close to a statement. All you really did what prove that your head is indeed located straight up your own arse.

          • daniel buck

            Refer to my previous post if you want, but I want to stress this…I don’t think you have really read the Bible through and seen things in context if you really believe some of the things you’ve said. Of course, you can believe whatever you want – one of the beautiful things about God is that He doesn’t require you to love Him – but your comments do come across as rather angry. Are you also so frustrated with Allah, the various Hindu gods, and the Native Americans’ Great Spirit?

          • Is this better?

            I’m frustrated with people. Mostly people who use religion as a tool to promote hate and bigotry, based on fairy tales written from stories by farmers who didn’t know enough about the universe to understand what is out there so they made up fables to make sense of the world around them. The truth is out there and it’s not going to be found in a magic man in the sky.

          • Wes Edwards

            It’s probably a good thing that you hide your face and use a pseudonym on your profile. Some people might be so inclined to return the personal insults you levy in a personal way…

          • Is this better?

            Threats over communication lines are illegal, however, something tells me you’re way under-leagued on this one. :)

          • Becky Buhman

            Two completely different world views arguing with each other. Only the Holy Spirit can make them connect. Don’t argue. It doesn’t do any good.

          • Jeff Bunkelman

            Anyone can quote something from a book. Doesnt make it true in any way. If people would stop arguing over religion and just live life there wouldnt be any problems. Talking about retards? All the people who argue about all this are the definition of retards. Lifes not supposed to be spent like this. Idiots

          • linreis

            Jeff, your use of the word ‘retard’ is exactly why you need some guidance in your own life…you are right, but if one person reading this, whether they comment or not, decides to turn to God and to learn about him, then their life is made better.
            not sure anybody is arguing. People who believe in God are being ridiculed and called ‘retards’ and ‘idiots’ by people who are afraid to find out about God…I know the road to learning is hard and a never ending one, but to be egotistical enough to think you can deal with life on your own is totally immature and irresponsible.

          • linreis

            your lack of belief doesn’t make the scripture any less true, or applicable…

          • Is this better?

            Just because 3 year olds believe in Santa doesn’t mean Santa is real. Just as much as just because you believe in a god or a bible doesn’t make god real, or the bible true.

            But my lack of belief in both does in fact make both less applicable to me. Most definitely.

          • linreis

            bah humbug…LOL…hardly a comparative example…I’m certainly not three years old, or even 5…and I don’t need to tell you that Santa Claus is derived from a Turkish figure who helped people who needed it…The Germans have a folk lore similar to it…Santa is real…maybe not the jolly old fart that’s magically down your chimney, but there are figures at work today to keep him alive…
            The events of the Bible are being proven each and every day, as our technology gets more sophisticated. But I don’t need proof from a scientist. I became a Gramma today! and all it takes is one look at that little girl to know there is a God and He loves us…belief is a choice. But I have enough ‘proof’ in the way God has taken care of me and my family every day, the way He guides and protects me, and the promises He has given to US all. You keep making snide remarks, trying to belittle God, but the only one who is belittling himself is you…

          • Is this better?

            But Santa isn’t going to come down a chimney and deliver gifts to your
            granddaughter, now is he? But you’ll tell her he will, and for a time,
            she’ll believe it. Much as you have been told your whole life that
            there is this god, and doubting his existence sends you to hell so you
            better believe, and so you do.

            The events of the bible…lol.
            They are no more proven today than when the authors fictionalized their
            “true” accounts of their “observations.”

            I will tell you this -
            the rocks displayed in the pictures above may very well be the ark –
            but not the ark as you think. Those rocks might actually be the
            starting point for the whole fictional tale of Noah. Picture a time say
            15000 years ago, when some hunter/gatherers were out climbing around
            and what do they find? Oh, they find these rocks…that do in fact
            resemble a very large boat. Perhaps they actually think it’s a boat and
            come up with a tale of how the boat got there. Or they realize it’s
            just a bunch of rocks, but they tell their children fables and magically
            the rocks become a boat. Retell that tale for centuries, and lo and
            behold, someone is going to actually believe those rocks were a boat,
            and the rest of the fable “becomes true.” And sometime later, someone
            writes it down and puts it in a book. To tell the truth – I find that
            explanation a billion times more plausible than a 600 year old man built
            a bigger boat than had ever been built before, out of wood,
            disregarding actual physics and engineering and how such a boat would
            not be seaworthy, and then loaded it with his family, and not two, but
            like 16 of every animal on the planet, including birds, enough feed for
            all of them – including the carnivores – as well as some means of waste
            cleanup and disposal, and somehow, these animals survived a boat ride
            with herbivores and carnivores sharing living quarters. Yeah, um, so if
            we leave out logic and reality, sure, right?

            Such is the
            nature of the “truth” of you bible. Built on fable, and elaborated in
            fiction, but presented as fact. Much the same way any con man would
            attempt.

          • linreis

            I see no harm in the Santa theory for a time. Children should be allowed their fantasy. Children should also be taught of the wonders of God, and what can be accomplished with Him in their Hearts…they may be Santa some day for ones who need it…Logic: just because Santa doesn’t come down the chimney doesn’t mean there aren’t wonderful, big hearted people who make sure as many children as possible can still enjoy the wonders and magic of Christmas…your brand of logic leaves a really dull and ugly life…Children and adults need the magic in their hearts, before your ugly reality comes back to haunt them…my belief in God, Noah’s Ark and the flood, and the stories of Jesus, Himself, have been proven in my heart and mind so many times through my life…the birth of a child, my grandchild, is one thing your logic cannot undo…scientifically, think about how many events must happen in just the right moment, in just the right way to produce a child…sorry, but only God can do that over and over…

          • Is this better?

            “is one thing your logic cannot undo”

            LOL. So you look logic and facts in the face and say “NOT TODAY! NO, NOT TODAY!”

            Seems legit.

          • Wes Edwards

            Is there some online game I’m not aware of that awards you points for being hostile toward others? If so, you seem to be driven by gaining a high score. Why don’t you stop ridiculing those you disagree with? I know it’s hard, but acting like an adult is possible and can even be desirable. You may just need to stop being… you.

          • Is this better?

            Is it ironic or hypocritical to attempt to lecture someone for insulting others by insulting them? Probably ironic as the hypocritical tendencies of the christian nation are well ingrained at this point.

          • Jeff Bunkelman

            Haha thats so funny i was just thinking about unicorns and i read you’re comment lol i was gonna ask these people if they do believe in unicorns lol nice work

          • Jeff Schlagel

            Really you going to use snopes to get information? They have been dis proven almost as many times as being proven.

          • mzungu

            Remember the telephone game when we were kids? Snopes is really good at dispelling the accumulation of errors tacked on to supposed facts that were passed around in spam emails dating from the 1980′s. I have to give them credit there.

          • Jay Torrez

            Problem with the snopes.com claim… go to the bottom of the page. The article has only two sources. one word against the other. Good luck choosing which to believe. I mean, seriously? Anyone can claim something is false… Only real way to find out, in my opinion, is to visit yourself and do some of your own research. Lol

          • M.

            haha I agree completely. The only reason I posted the snopes article was to get people to try look at different sources. Many have just ridiculed what I did, but you have gotten the point.

          • Brian Johnson

            I have personally debunked Snopes 3 times already this month so they are a joke…

          • Is this better?

            What have you personally debunked at Snopes? Go ahead and tell us…odds are good that you’re wrong on those too.

          • Wut Defock

            There is more evidence for E.T.s being thought of as god. The Jews were dealing with an E.T. presence and decided to take advantage of it and declared themselves the “chosen people”. They were visited, not chosen. They started the big B.S. religion and the Romans jumped on a revised version and called it Christianity, still totally B.S. and a tragic misunderstanding of what was behind the hole spiritual thing.

          • lincolnkreifels

            I think elitists of this day & age would prefer to create materialistic
            sheep rather than anti materialist christians.

          • Shari Rhodes

            Wut: Well I am so happy for you that you were seemingly there and can attest first-hand to the non-existence of God/Jesus. There are many falsehoods out there concerning the existence or non-existence of our Christian God. The secular world is not THE authority on the answer to this question. Think for yourself, and don’t rely on TV shows to establish your religious beliefs. We have very possibly been visited by ET for many generations, but that has nothing to do with the supreme Creator of the Universe. Who do you think created the ETs?

          • Jackie

            Perfectly said.

          • Sherron McComas

            Well put!

          • George Lance Waring

            Proving the Ark does not really prove the existence of God. In fact proving the existence of God is detrimental to faith.

          • Debbie Peterson

            You comment is the dumbest thing I’ve read all day. I am sorry – but you are ridiculous. Are you really saying that if an ark was found, and it exactly matched the dimensions of the ark as instructed by G-d to Noah, it wouldn’t boost your faith in G-d? Forget faith. If that is the case, it tells me that your critical thinking skills are nonexistent.

          • George Lance Waring

            I guess Debbie Peterson will not be befriending me on Facebook, no Debbie, proof of the ark does not prove or disprove God, it only gives evidence of a big boat. And please don’t claim to be Christian, you are very intolerant and your refusal to spell out God tells me you are Jewish.

          • Kay Briskey

            More than that, Debbie, he …. they …. don’t want to change. They love what they believe. It takes a heart like God’s to enter the Kingdom, because God will allow no discord, no resentments, no hurts, no tears, etc. there. Isn’t expecting and looking forward to that, wonderful? Be blessed!

          • Shari Rhodes

            George W.: What a sad, foolish statement. I would imagine when the moment comes that you face judgement by God Almighty, He will cause you to remember making this comment.

          • CharLiDog

            How arrogant can you be?

          • George Lance Waring

            Oh Shari, you should not presume to know me, my relationship with God, or the mind of God. Its in very bad taste and might be dangerous.

          • rick col

            I’d say it’s time to stop casting pearls before swine’s. God has blinded some eye’s and opened others for his reasons. What does the light have to do with darkness anyways. We are the salt of the earth the light of the world, so Keep shining and share your goodness with good discernment. It’s not up to us to convince the unwilling and untried heart. God is coming back with a sword of salvation and we will surely see on that day just how real he is. God break every chain formed against this article and I bind these little darts of dis belief in Jesus name I pray.

          • Kay Briskey

            Well, said, Rick …. to which I add, Get Ready! The King is Coming!

          • Omanomadingdong

            Give me some “evidence.”

          • tahiti 5000

            What evidence? Please you’re only deluding yourself.

          • Eric Bishton

            Yes, Atheism, defined as the lack of belief in a deity and only as the lack of belief in a deity, is a religion. That makes perfect sense. What could the complete and utter lack of religion be, if not a religion in itself.

            Oh, and if you do have existence of god, I recommend you record it, and have it published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. Science doesn’t care about whether or not the answer conforms to what we think it will be; if your evidence is valid, it will be published.

            Of course, maybe you’re just talking about personal misinterpretations of natural phenomena and eyewitness testimony (one of the least accurate sources of information you can find, apart from just making things up), and have no actual evidence.

            You know, whatever.

          • Renee E. Dorsey

            Because CharLiDog has less brains than my dog, that’s why – cannot dispuite with facts so it is just insults and name calling.

          • JadedAtheist

            Atheism is the lack of belief. It is not a belief in and of itself, but the absence of it. So, no, unfortunately, it’s not like a religion. Usually (and I use this term lightly and apologize for CharLi’s comment since it was so extreme) we are people who read these articles to gain more knowledge on the subject for personal/peer study. Hence why the majority of atheists in today’s society have read the majority – if not all – of the bible than the average theist.

            CharLi does have a point about the Sphinx, which was built during the era of the great flood mentioned in the bible. There is hardly more proof of an existent deity than there is of a lack (though I admit, this article was expertly written). Apologies for CharLi’s behavior, he’s likely a newer atheist. We go in stages of hatred and then to jaded forms of semantic rhetoric when the time arises.

          • http://cst.net Chris Salmon

            You are correct. You have every right to be as big an idiot as you wish, and to make as big an embarrassment of yourself as you wish.

            We also have the right, if not the obligation, to prevent people like you from deceiving others into believing this claptrap. We also have every right to point at you and laugh because of you exercising your right to buffoonery. That doesn’t impinge on your rights at all, you’re still free do be an idiot.

          • Don Smith

            I know this article is three months old but I had to give my two cents on this one. There must be a twinkle of doubt that their, “there is no God” is wrong. Other wise why would they keep trying to convince their self that there isn’t? That means there is still hope and we must never stop praying for them.

        • Brian Phillips

          Spread your hate to someone willing to listen. Thought you believed in Science? I guess you only believe in science you think you agree with.

          • CharLiDog

            What? What hate? And I accept ‘science’. Why wouldn’t I? I can always do the tests and research myself. And unlike theists, I change my position immediately upon having better information. If you can show me where I’m wrong, I’ll thank you. Not start lying and whatever to justify my position.
            I’m on the end closer to enlightenment. I seek the truth, and follow it wherever it goes. Show me I’m wrong.

          • Dustin Larson

            DOG. Why science falls short.

            -truth is not fact.

            -The big bang theory cannot occur as it breaks the second law of thermodynamics

            - there is no such thing as the missing link ever found, in point of fact all of which that have been found have been debunked.

            -Potbelly hill- you may want to look this up as it pretty much is a ridiculously advanced city that predates the supposed time that we ‘monkeys’ even existed yet.

            -mountains of evidence that you claim exists is primarily inductive, which of course means ‘The reasoning in which the premises seek to supply strong evidence for (not absolute proof of) the truth of the conclusion. While the conclusion of a deductive argument is supposed to be certain, the truth of an inductive argument is supposed to be probable, based upon the evidence given.’

            - which segways into ‘Inductive arguments needn’t be as rigorous as deductive arguments in order to be good arguments. Good inductive arguments lend support to their conclusions, but even if their premises are true then that doesn’t establish with 100% certainty that their conclusions are true. Even a good inductive argument with true premises might have a false conclusion; that the argument is a good one and that its premises are true only establishes that its conclusion is probably true.

            All inductive arguments, even good ones, are therefore deductively invalid, and so “fallacious” in the strictest sense. The premises of an inductive argument do not, and are not intended to, entail the truth of the argument’s conclusion, and so even the best inductive argument falls short of deductive validity.’

            -So if you side with inductive reasoning you must also accept that it will be deductive invalid. Literally speaking it will always be false deductively.

            I’m not actually sure why people choose one set of beliefs over another stating that it is based on fact but then explored deductively it is always false but hey truth and fact are not the same thing. Perhaps science isnt always the answer?

          • CharLiDog

            You do not know more than scientists, and anyone that can’t understand the Theory of Evolution doesn’t have a high enough brain function to rationally discuss issues. Especially those that deal with science. Sorry, you are unqualified.

          • Dustin Larson

            You just inferred and stated 3 logical fallacies……. one of which is that scientists know more? the theory of evolution is just a theory? and you are deciding what qualifies according to your beliefs… You are sounding exactly the same as what you are trying to argue against. You have demonstrated your intelligence. :) Pray to your monkey. Good luck.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Evolution does happen within intelligent design but not passed the classification. You have no missing link. That is pure bullshit and you know it. It doesn’t exist. Just your slippery slope theories of green algae becoming people. Your ability to make connections that do empirically exist is termed pathological and shares fact patterns with a
            schizophrenic.

          • CharLiDog

            Of course we have a missing link. Every fossil is of a transitional species. Every living thing is a transitional species. You obviously don’t understand the first thing about this issue. Read some of my other posts. I try to explain it on you people’s level.
            Now the evidence you continue to request doesn’t exist. You know why? Because it would disprove the ToE. That’s right, you want evidence that disproves the theory, then say “see, you can’t provide the evidence I ask for.” Talk about pathological. There is no evidence to fit your criteria. But then, we don’t make claims that require the proof you seek.
            Evolution is fascinating and much more beautiful than the genesis story. Try taking a class in it. You can see all the evidence for yourself. At least educate yourself about the basics. You’re denying claims we (scientists) don’t make. You are unqualified to discuss this subject.

          • Dustin Larson

            again……

            In the entire fossil record, there is not a single unequivocal transition form proving a causal relationship between any two species. From the billions of fossils we have discovered, there should be thousands of clear examples if they existed.

            Now what? :)

          • Brian Phillips

            It’s called the THEORY of Evolution for a reason. There is no proof, and the science is junk science. If Man came from bacteria at the bottom of the ocean, then why isn’t man born from the sea, and not of mankind? Prove that one, smart guy.

          • CharLiDog

            Really? The, “it’s just a theory” argument? Talk about a troll.
            Look up Scientific Theory. See how stupid you are.

          • Brian Phillips

            Look up the definition of Theory. You are a true liberal… dumb as stump. And answer the question. How did life begin? Bacteria? Yeah, I can believe that of liberals. Anything you don’t want to believe in never happened. Yep, troll. lol

          • CharLiDog

            The ToE is a scientific theory. Let’s not talk. You’re an idiot.

          • God

            This might be the dumbest argument in this whole board. Go learn something…anything. We could have more challenging arguments from a turnip.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Claims without substantial empirical evidence is purely congecture. It can’t be trusted.

          • CharLiDog

            How intellectually dishonest you are. You make claims of a god with no evidence, yet demand substantial empirical evidence for your oppositions claims. Incredible. Well the thing is, I have substantial evidence. I’m having to repeat myself because in true idiot theist fashion, you refuse to listen and learn. The evidence I speak of is found in museums, libraries, and universities all over the world.
            Claims with no evidence are ridiculous and stupid. Worshiping a monster, child killing god concept is immoral. You are immoral and stupid. And again, because you can’t seem to grasp it, you are unqualified to speak about the ToE. You don’t even understand the basics.
            Why don’t you stick with a subject you should know, but I have a feeling I know better. Your blood sacrifice cult. Your ignorant and sadistic god. How about you tell me how morals can only come from your buybull. Or just make a bunch of unsubstantiated claims that could apply to every religion because they’re meaningless. Surprise me and show me a use for your religion.

          • jeff

            CharLiDog, can you name for me One animal that has evolved, and from what other animal it evolved from?

          • CharLiDog

            All animals evolved. We are all transitional species. It’s so self evident.
            Why do you even argue evolution? One, it’s clearly what happened. Two, I doubt you even understand what it says. Instead you build straw men for what you think it says. Strangely, you continue to do so even though every time you attack your straw men you’re corrected by us. Think about that for a minute. Think about how you claim to know more than people who have devoted their lives to studying this issue.
            For clarity, genes are mutated in offspring; we call that evolution. So evolution is fact by definition. Consequently, every living thing is a transitional species by definition. Now, the ToE (Theory of Evolution) is the documentation of the knowledge we have about gene mutations (evolution). This theory has withstood and passed every test; it’s used in several disciplines every single day and the Science Always Works.
            The ToE is a cornerstone of science. It is as robust as any other theory. The living standard of the entire world was increased by applying our knowledge of the ToE. The evolution debate is over.
            Try this. If we send a Battlestar Galactica into deep space today and it returns 5 million years later, we will be lucky to recognize each other. How can you not understand that? You are not a clone, nor are your kids. It’s that simple. Seriously, how can you not understand evolution and the ToE from what I’ve just explained?

          • Dustin Larson

            The fossil record reflects the original diversity of life, not an evolving tree of increasing complexity. There are many examples of “living fossils,” where the species is alive today and found deep in the fossil record as well.

            According to evolution models for the fossil record, there are three predictions:

            1. wholesale change of organisms through time
            2. primitive organisms gave rise to complex organisms
            3. gradual derivation of new organisms produced transitional forms.

            However, these predictions are not borne out by the data from the fossil record.

            Trilobites, for instance, appear suddenly in the fossil record without any transitions. There are no fossils between simple single-cell organisms, such as bacteria, and complex invertebrates, such as trilobites.

            Extinct trilobites had as much organized complexity as any of today’s invertebrates. In addition to trilobites, billions of other fossils have been found that suddenly appear, fully formed, such as clams, snails, sponges, and jellyfish. Over 300 different body plans are found without any fossil transitions between them and single-cell organisms.

            Fish have no ancestors or transitional forms to show how invertebrates, with their skeletons on the outside, became vertebrates with their skeletons inside.

            Fossils of a wide variety of flying and crawling insects appear without any transitions. Dragonflies, for example, appear suddenly in the fossil record. The highly complex systems that enable the dragonfly’s aerodynamic abilities have no ancestors in the fossil record.

            In the entire fossil record, there is not a single unequivocal transition form proving a causal relationship between any two species. From the billions of fossils we have discovered, there should be thousands of clear examples if they existed.

            Now what? :)

          • CharLiDog

            Look, there’s a reason the debate is over. We have spent 20 years debunking your false claims. Here’s how it goes, I spend time getting evidence that clearly shows how you are wrong. But you don’t ever admit to it. No, instead you post another bunch of false claims and expect me to debunk them. Which I can; I haven’t seen a new argument in 20 years. And it goes on and on.
            So for all of you who are too stupid or lazy to have learned about evolution and the ToE by now, try the site talkorigins.org. Every argument you think is true is debunked with science and evidence and evidence that backs up the other evidence. Publish and get peer reviewed if you think you have something factual. That’s the only way the debate will be reopened. We’ve wasted enough time trying to spoon feed you while you keep spitting it on the ground. The Debate is Over.

          • Dustin Larson

            and yet you cannot name not even one transitional fossil form. Not one out of the billions out there? You spend time getting evidence but cannot produce one. The debate is over alright… because there is no scientific argument. Its all one big inductive logic pile of bs.

          • Brian Phillips

            The debate is over?!!?? LMAO Wow, what an arrogant jerk. You think that because you don’t want to believe in anything other than that you already believe in that makes everything else non-existent? LMAO The Left is truly amazing in its hypocritical beliefs.The hoops you have to jump through to believe what you do is truly amazing. I get a good laugh at you guys trying to disprove something by calling it names. LOL

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            LOL! If I quote you, I’m going to call it “The Trouble With Trilobites.” [Harcourt Fenton Mudd would be proud.]

          • God

            Gerobatrachus

            Happy? I’m sure you don’t know what that is, so perhaps you should look it up. Then come back and spew more of your nonsense. But do look it up – don’t make me smite you.

          • jeff

            No, I just need you to give me ONE example. Name it? You can not because, there are none in existence.

          • Guest

            You’re right, you’re the genius that wants us to believe we evolved from a drop of water. Explain to me why that rock that was floating into space felt the need to evolve into anything else? Wouldn’t the rock need be capable of cognitive thought to have a thought that it needed to evolve? Did the rock “just evolve” for no reason? Did all the things that the rock evolved into that also did not have cognitive thought also “just evolve” for no apparent reason?

          • Guest

            Once you figure out a way to explain any of that explain why cognitive thought came to be and how…

          • God

            Brain grow big. Big brain grow big thought. You stupid.

          • God

            Coo Coo. Coo Coo.

          • Kurt Knittle

            Second law of thermodynamics is for a closed system only. The rest of the garbage you’re saying is equally bunk.

          • Dustin Larson

            so the premise of the big bang theory is an open system???? neat.

          • God

            Look up “open system” and see what that means. Then quit sounding like an ignorant dumbbutt.

          • Dustin Larson

            if by bunk garbage you mean the part about the basic common differences between inductive and deductive reasoning (which is the basis for pretty much all of science) then I say good luck with practical reasoning. :)

          • God

            Big Bang theory in no way breaks the second law of thermodynamics.

            The only ones I’m going to smite are the ignorant.

          • John Alesso

            Those who pretend to accept science always claim that they will “change their position immediately upon having better information.” In reality, the human ego is much more resistant to admitting it is wrong, even when the scientific evidence against its stand is overwhelming.

            Dr Zarkov99 just gave actual verifiable documentation of a flood so devastating that it likely covered most or all land on earth. The Kaiabab plateau is another example of a natural dam in the US that was destroyed roughly six thousand years ago, causing “millions of years” of erosion in a single day. Mt St Helens caused “millions of years” of erosion in a single day. Sea-life fossils are found regularly in excavations of mountainous areas.

            To say a world-wide flood never occurred is to ignore science, not accept it.

          • CharLiDog

            Finding some guy to agree with does not negate the thousands of pages that explain the opposite. Sorry, some things are settled. This is one of them. There was not a world wide flood. There is not an aspect of your flood story that’s believable. To defend it as literal is to expose yourself as a complete idiot.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Hypothetical conjecture is not proof… You committed an enormous logical fallacy…

          • Guest

            So this HUGE boat almost exactly where it was documented to be in a book written thousands of years ago isn’t believable?

          • God

            It’s not a boat. It’s a rock formation.

          • Shari Rhodes

            LOL. A rock formation with a precisely laid support system, metal parts, etc.? I think not….

          • God

            Its a rock formation. Do your research on it and who Ron Wyatt is…should be easy, he apparently singlehandedly discovered everything religuous in the world (except magic undies)

          • John Alesso

            We both agree it’s settled. We just disagree about how. You think of yourself as right. Either way, I am wrong. That is one reason I needed to accept Jesus to fill the gap between how wrong I am and His righteousness. I hope, with maturity, that someday you will discover that not everything you believe is correct. Until you reach that realization, you won’t know what truth is.

          • CharLiDog

            Unlike you, I don’t claim knowledge I don’t have. Like knowing more than entire bodies of science. You people are nuts. So of course, my knowledge consists of truth. Show me better information, I will change my position. That’s what the search for truth is. You, OTOH, have a delusion to protect. Therefore you will ignore and deny all evidence that contradicts it, no matter how complete the evidence is. You think you are Napoleon, and you’re saying whatever you need to protect your story. You’re claiming to know more than scientists that have devoted their life to the study of these things. You’re 180 degrees off reality.
            Explain the righteousness you claim for your god. This is just something else you fool yourself about. And tell me what you’ve done that deserves eternal torture. Neither state exists.
            Your hell is no more real than Thor’s. I know they have you scared to the bone, but think about it. You don’t fear Thor’s hell, or the muslim’s, or any other. It’s just one more logical, rational step to accept the truth. You’re terrified of something that doesn’t even exist. And look how it makes you ignore reality. Pitiable.

          • MyronJPoltroonian

            Agreed – mostly. I was with you right up to the point you mentioned the “Sea-life fossils”. Continental Drift, coupled with the upwelling, if you will, of tectonic plates have forced some geological formations to also shift vertically and not just horizontally. Which, of course, accounts for the aforementioned, but, seemingly misplaced, aquatic fossils.

          • God

            Someday you’ll study and find out that the mountains rose from the sea….not, the sea rose up to the mountains. Mountains are still coming out of the sea – either through volcanoes erupting (which wouldn’t really produce sea creature fossils) or through tectonic uplifting – where continents moving caused the edge of the continents to rise from the sea floor…and they’re still going up…and up…

            Pretty simple, really.

          • Clayton Murray

            Dr Z. did not in fact give any documentation for your purported ‘devastating’ flood. Like Myron below in fact, he discussed a very local flooding that has possibly been misconstrued as a far-reaching flood. When will you people stop lying about things? Primarily, it goes against your religion, and secondly, it is utterly abominable to lie about the facts to sway others into accepting your cult.

          • Randy Cadmus

            Argue against intelligent design… Show us your depravity.

          • Brian Phillips

            You only accept science you agree with. If the results of the science don’t fit your agenda, then you try to discredit the science. Your cover is blown. You’re just a stooge for the Left. A total sheep.

          • Laureen Acton

            EXACTLY !!!!

        • MyronJPoltroonian

          Pardon me for asking the obvious, but just exactly why does the time of the Sphinx’s construction have to do with the material it was covered with? Over Æons, sea levels rise and fall, deserts come and go and sand dunes are ever shifting. The type of sand (if identified correctly) is a matter of scientific consensus. [Sorry. I used the "C" word.] When it covered the structure in question has no correlation as to how old the Sphinx is, only that it existed before it was covered by the material in question.

        • lincolnkreifels

          generalizations like this one make you look awfully arrogant. Theists make up like 90% of the world, but I suppose you’re in the top 10% and can say whatever makes you happy no mind the others.

        • Rocko Magistri Sr.

          Um excuse me Mr. Charlipooch sir, Did you not read this article? I have always been the first to deny this type of thing as well. Citing there is no proof of anything and the Bible was written by Man. My current feelings don’t matter though. Look at the science within this article. These articles were exhumed by people far smarter then you or I. You cant deny Science. And the labs that returned favorable for this being the Ark. I guess the reason you are so upset with Rlm357 is because this article now makes it very difficult to deny our creator. I do hope you are able to settle your emotions after a spell and repent. Ask God for forgiveness. I hope you don’t remain on the path you have chosen. Based on what I have seen today I can’t deny God and the thought that there is a Heaven as well as a Highway to hell. Which is your exit sir? God be with you!

        • Charles

          Actually, there IS MUCH geologic evidence of epic rains and flooding, whether or not you believe the Biblical and many other folkloric accounts of an epic flood, including Noah’s Ark.

          Ever stop to consider that folklore and scripture have bases in FACTS as well as faith and mythology? Of course not that would require an intellectually honest and open mind.

          You’re so eager to denigrate believers that you blither right by factual information.

          By the way, whether or not there really was a Noah’s Ark, this is not it. Scientists have proven that this formation is NOT the remains of a boat or any man-made structure. Two contrary facts: flooding during any geological epoch could not possibly have reached this altitude, nor has there been enough time for geologic uplifting to raise terrain to this altitude.

          • CharLiDog

            Oh really? Wow, proof of flooding? I did not realize there has ever been any type of flood anywhere. I’ll have to completely re-evaluate my entire worldview.
            Of course, I didn’t said there has never been a flood, and even made one comment about the buybull using real places as settings for it’s stories so I don’t really know what the F you are talking about. Especially when you end your post agreeing with my position. Should I accuse you of not considering that boats were made back then?

        • Kristin Newman

          So, where is your works cited page? You rant about backing claims, but you back none of your own.

        • Shari Rhodes

          No flood? Tell that to the countless scientists who have unequivocably identified the existence of the flood in rocks all over the world.

          • CharLiDog

            No. They haven’t. Quite the contrary.

        • Shari Rhodes

          Please don’t refer to the Bible as ‘buybull’. It feels sacriligious and is offensive, to me anyway.

        • G W

          NOT one thing written in the Holy Bible has ever been disproved. NOT ONE
          WORD! To say otherwise is the ultimate LIE. The problem is you think
          you have it ALL figured out, when in fact you are a lost soul. Whether
          you know it or not you are following a religion called humanism. It says
          I can do life by myself under my own selfish rules and I don’t believe
          in my Creator or want to follow HIS rules. It is a LIE from Hell as old
          as mankind. Have you ever heard of Quantum Physics? Science has proven
          there are many more dimensions in this universe then your current
          reality. FACT; This world was made by an intelligent, all powerful, all
          knowing SPIRIT Being which religious people call God and Christians
          believe is Jesus Christ (God in the Flesh). Here is The Gospel; God the
          Father loves you even in your sin and stupidity. God loves you so deep
          that HE sent HIS Son Jesus into this world two thousand years ago to pay
          the price for ALL sinners, for ALL time. Jesus is a Holy Gods’ gift to
          humanity. Jesus is the only way to be reconciled unto God because The
          Holy Father said so. IF you continue to rant and rave about how there
          are so many unbelievers who support your unbelief, and IF you continue
          to follow that LIE unto death then guess what YOU LOSE!!!! LOST FOREVER,
          FOREVER SEPARATED from your CREATOR. Do you think that is unfair? It is
          not unfair because you were offered God’s free pass to Heaven, HIS Son
          Jesus Christ and you spit on HIM. Who is gonna feel sorry for you now?
          Do you think any of your heathen friends are gonna care that you went to
          Hell especially since you did not have to go there? It is NOT a
          fairy-tale my friend. IT IS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH. It is GODs’ TRUTH and it
          is HIS TRUTH which is the standard that HIS creation must OBEY. You
          cannot go thru life living by your own rules and not take ownership of
          it. If you go thru life following the lie of humanism, atheism, or any
          other ism YOU ARE LOST and a FOOL. I didn’t say it, God said it thru HIS
          Word the Holy Bible. Consider it an owners manual on how to live your
          life. To reject your Creators’ advice on how to live your life clean
          before HIM, is just being foolish. God exist whether you believe HIM or
          not. You mentioned universities and museums? Do you really believe that
          the world was made in a big bang? or your ancestors were apes? That is
          harder to believe then creation by Intelligent Design. Be a free thinker
          and seek spiritual truth over a foolish atheist professors confusion.
          Nowhere in this world are you allowed to make up your own rules and live
          life according to your own morality without consequences. What makes
          you think that you are gonna play that selfish game without future
          consequences? Christianity is not a religion but a personal relationship
          with your Creator. Jesus was a real man (historical fact) who showed us
          how to be reconciled to God the Father and showed people how a redeemed
          man or woman could walk in Gods’ righteousness. He then gave his life
          for yours so that you would not have to stand alone, guilty before a
          Holy God. You see whether you stick your head in the sand and continue
          the mantra that there is no god, There is a God. HE is the Almighty KING
          of the Universe. That is the Ultimate Truth. Let God be true and every
          man a liar. You will either embrace God and HIS Eternal Life or reject
          Gods’ Truth for a Lie and spend eternity separated from Him where nobody
          wants to go. The choice is all yours. I hope you choose Eternal Life.

        • mzungu

          Hi CharLiDog,
          It seems you have found yourself in some deep water. Let me see if I can help you. I’m a Christian and this past Sunday someone pointed out something I never thought of before. People of English speaking nations like ours with free speech show a pattern emerging and that is that people can be Buddhists and that’s cool. People can be Hindu and that’s cool, or spiritists or any one of the other religions on a car bumper sticker except Christianity. Christians are always attacked for their beliefs when they speak out. Why is this?

          Could it be that Christianity is The Way and The Life and nobody can go to Heaven but through Christ? I mean the constant bickering and personal attacks really add more credibility to Christianity than you want. So if I were you I would just let Christians get that big FAIL stamped on their foreheads if that’s what you think we are. That is my advice. I mean why care? Do you love us so much that you want to save us from ourselves? That is very sweet of you, thanks but no thanks.

          • CharLiDog

            In deep water? I hardly think so.You people are intellectual midgets.
            Oh the poor persecuted xians. Don’t worry, I often play atheists and muslims. I enjoy pointing out the mistakes in their qur’ap as much as I do the ones in your buybull. I like insulting their god and prophet too. They don’t get a pass in any way. Now hindus and buddhists don’t affect my life so I only ridicule them as I run across them. No need to hunt.
            You’re in a blood sacrifice cult. The god concept you worship commands children to be stoned to death. We know the holy books are just stories, yet you people refuse to accept reality. My advice is, get used to hearing from us; we’re just getting started.

        • Keet Hensley

          I really find it very curious that so many Atheist study so hard to try to prove something does NOT exist. What that really tells me is that the Atheist actually has to convince themselves that they are right.

          Of course the Islamic Government would cover up the Truth as is written in the JEWISH Holy Book.

          As would any Atheist also attempt to prove it as a lie or hide it so that the proof does not expose them to be fools.

          Like Lawren Downing said , You were not dragged into this thread, you came of your own accord, no problem, but the thing is, we see it as your own vanity struggling real hard to believe that you are correct and many millions of others are wrong. If you are truly as intelligent as you alone believe you are, please run for office and fix the world, I am sure you can find 2 or three others that agree with you.

          I too was once one of the biggest and most stubborn unbelievers, my abilities and vanity made me think I was so smart, to be able to do things so well without ever being educated as to how. Until the day came, that I reached my overload point and hit a brick wall that I could not overcome alone. With one sentence, that included “GOD I need…” and what followed was so unbelievable and impossible, GOD made a very HUGE statement and from there, there has only been more and better even my life, to me and my Family, there is no denying GOD. At that point, I still denied Jesus, however, that is yet another thing that GOD fixed, so MR. and MRS. Atheist, watch what you say or GOD will jump right in and prove HIMSELF to you too.

          It is our own Vanity and Pride that keep us from opening our Hearts and Minds to believe in the Invisible GOD that has given us the Free Will to do our best to prove we do not need HIM, good luck with that, but if ever you do Get Over Yourself, then real living begins.

          Matthew Chapter 18:

          Viewing the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge).

          Matthew Chapter 18

          1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

          2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

          3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

          4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

          5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

          6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

          • CharLiDog

            I do have some answers and several people that agree with me. I have a small essay going. Wish I could run for office. Or better yet, be King for ten years.
            Your verses do nothing to negate the verses I quoted. All you have done is show your buybull contradicts itself. Congratulations. I’m sure your solution to this contradiction will be to ignore the verses you don’t like. You will ignore reality to maintain your delusion. And theists don’t just do it with religion. They think they can do it lots of places. That’s what drags me to these threads. To point and laugh until you finally pull your head out to see what I’m laughing at.

          • Keet Hensley

            Probably the fool in the Mirror. The one that attempts to sound so educated that he loses his argument when he uses statements that make no sense to anyone but you. Enjoy yourself if that is all you want in life, enjoy and I thank you for giving me the Opportunity to speak a word or two for GOD.

          • CharLiDog

            So my arguments make no sense? Please, tell me how those verses don’t contradict? Explain how it’s moral under any circumstance to stone a child. I’m giving you all kinds of opportunity to defend the monster that is your god. Address all the children killed in the flood (it never happened, but it shows the mentality of your god). How about making Pharaoh say no just so he could kill the firstborn of Egypt. How is eternal punishment just for any crime? Opportunity abounds, delusional idiot theist. Preach away about your barbaric blood sacrifice cult.

          • Keet Hensley

            Way Kewl Dude, using Acid while reading the Bible brings on all kinds of Monsters, I’m so glad I was not living before the foundations of the Jews , Christians or even Islam, before any of those Covenants, Thank GOD HE finds it easier now to get our attention. Thank GOD for HIS Grace thru Jesus Christ or I too might be Smitten for all my sins as they were before Christ. Thank GOD for HIS covenant thru the blood of Jesus who Died and arose again for our sins.
            I am so happy for you, you are not fooled, there is no such thing as Invisible, yet your lungs fill with it, you can see because of it and your body could not move without it, I wish I was as smart as you, but no matter how much evidence you can find, you are not fooled, congratulations for your knowledge, however, wisdom is much better than all the knowledge you can ever acquire, my pity goes to you for being so grown up that you have grown above GOD in your own little world, while you are there, please create an amoeba for me so that I can see for myself that you are GOD, I don’t ask for anything complicated, just the most simple creatures of life, use your common sense and science, please show me you can.
            By the way, there is a second part of the Bible, it is called the New Testament, it tells about the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, and the New word, Love, oops another thing that is Invisible that you won’t believe in.
            Happy New Year Dude, Enjoy your reading and that creating life thingy, let us know what you name it and feed it.

          • CharLiDog

            Worth reading.
            You people really use amateur arguments. I think it’s true, the further right you go, the less people know. So let me shut down your ‘air’ argument, though I know you will continue to use it after I show you how stupid it is. Are you ready?
            I can demonstrate air. Your turn idiot.
            Oh, the lie of the loving jebus. The one who said worshiping him was more important than family. The one that told slaves to behave. The one that said to sell everything and give it to the poor (every xian sure ignores that verse). The one that said he didn’t change the OT law. He said that specifically. (Well, as accounted for 60 years later, but hey, you’re the one that claims accuracy.)
            Do you see how ridiculous this all is? It’s an ancient blood sacrifice cult, buddy. Come on, man. You know what the truth is. All you have to do is accept that your hell is no more real than Thor’s or the muslims. You will feel better because now you can accept the truth, no matter what it is. You don’t have to ignore logic to maintain a delusion. Everything you see about the other religions is true of yours. Just accept reality, it’ll be fine. Better than ever, because you KNOW what you know.

          • Keet Hensley

            Silly Boy, Mr. T had it right for you, “I pity the FOOL”, Don’t worry, I’m not trying to convert you, just using you to speak for GOD, nothing tickles my heart more than to Brag on GOD.

        • Ronald Reiman

          Of course, you have a film record to show that no flood took place. Shame is it not that a physicist has investigated and found the subject to be factual. So much information on the internet, be honest and look at it all.

          • CharLiDog

            Funny the evidence you demand verses the lack of evidence you accept. A world flood has been found to be factual? What a liar. And it would be geologists moron. Sorry to call names, but seriously, you people are liars and idiots. Oh who am I fooling; I love to point out how stupid theists are.
            You’re in a barbaric, blood sacrifice cult from the bronze age. Your god demands you stone unruly children and people who pick up sticks on the wrong day. Plus, your god is an idiot. … Wait a minute, do you all worship that god because you’re immoral like it, or because you’re stupid like it?

          • Ronald Reiman

            Because you did not get your lollipop today you are angry and insulting, you grab snatches of quotes which may or may not have been gleaned from the bible, but leave the old testament to the Hebrews, Jesus brought us the new testament but you know this already, you are simply indulging in your favourite hate campaign because you cannot understand. When you have spent a bit of time on the net having a look at the possibility about the ark, maybe you will arrive at a conclusion that will suit you, there are plenty of video’s to look at, many claims made by multitudes, you decide what you believe.

        • Jeff Gabel

          The sand around the Sphinx could indeed be “Sea Sand”. It would have been present in the surrounding area since the subsidence of the flood waters. What makes you think it had to have formed AFTER the sphinx was built?
          Wind and erosion could have exposed the sand and blown it all over the Sphinx and everything else in the area.

        • balage

          “The Sphinx was built long after your mythical flood supposedly took place.” This argument is flawed. The Sphinx was built approx. 2545 BC ± 13 years (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza ). This is easy. The ‘mythical flood’ (your words) is a bit more difficult. You say that it ‘supposedly took place’ long before. But what does ‘supposedly’ mean here? Since this is an event which is described in scripture, ‘supposedly took place’ can only mean timing by the Bible. This has been calculated by people whom you would probably label ‘typical theists’ – but that’s what is meaningful in this case. The flood is computed to have occured (according to scripture) in 2304 BC ± 11 years. (source: http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood )

          Thus, the Bible says the flood occured. 241 ± 24 years LATER than the Sphinx was built, consequently, RLM357′s claim does not contain a trivial contradiction in timing, contrary to what you claim.

          Of course, this does not prove anything about the flood itself. Neither does it prove RLM357′s claim about the sand. But it proves one thing about YOU: after all, you are the one being ignorant of facts. :)

      • Jme Ramos

        I’m not claiming to know much about this… But being close to Mexico in Texas, we all woke up with red dust from Mexico all over our cars in Houston. The sphinx sits about 6 miles away from Cairo which is right by the water. Over time, couldn’t sand from the ocean have blown in over and over again with the weather??

    • Carlos Pereira

      If you believe this story, it will make you a dunce.

    • Maus

      Remember too, that the Muslims also believe in Noah, who was before Abraham, the patriarch of Judaism/Christianity and Islam.

    • Ryan McQuary

      so tell me something since all you athiests claim there is no proof of god…how did we come to be? where did the very first living organism gain life? What proof do you have? the oldest rocks are not the oldest rocks btw…the Carbon dating system is very foolishly flawed and I have to laugh at it…it is based upon stable half lives of materials in theory…theory does not take into account the fact that there is no material on earth with a stable and continuing half life…therefore your dating system is wrong…second…proof of god? dont really need it to believe in it…3rd…pushing your religion? Athiesm is kind of stupid…I dont believe in a god…if there is no god that would make you a god in your own right…but since there is no god, you simply do not exist…timelines, I believe at some point it is said that time in heaven is not the same as time on Earth…God is in heaven…we are on Earth (duh) so therefore your theory of 6000 years not being true is kind of a backwards argument…it is my belief that we remain in the 7th day and thet god is simply resting…even germs have to rest…as for no proof in any holy book, that is 100% false…there is proof of many events in the Bible…more in the Bible than any other religious text ever discovered…even though our Bible today is missing the 600 books that the catholics locked away in their vaults, we can build a very VERY strong case into proving the christian religion…as for Athiesm? HA!!! Athiesm is a joke people like to shove down everyones throats…dont believe me? why cant I pray in school without you jumping down my throat? you can choose not to join but you choose to attack…which means you are angry about something and my guess is that you are angry because you cant prove your claims

  • John B

    You arent going to find Noah’s Ark. Not because it didn’t exist, but because Noah and the Ark’s inhabitants aren’t about to leave all that wood just sitting there in boat form while they go out and chop new lumber for housing and village infrastructure. It would be stupid to leave high quality, already finished into planks and beams to sit and rot.

    • Yuuzhan

      unless they wanted people to find it later on.

    • Michael

      Unless you were concerned you would need the boat again.

      • John B

        Michael, why would they need it? God promised to never flood the Earth to that magnitude ever again.

        Ron, there is no record of God telling Noah and his family to leave the wood behind.

        Yuuzhan, why would they want people to find the Ark? What purpose with it serve given that God would have a written record of the events penned later on?

        • jhaejhae

          John B, There is no evidence of the using the wood to create houses either, They might have left it, because where they landed was not where they settled. They had some walking to do, and they knew it would be to cumbersome to haul all that wood.

          • Scott Roberts

            Could also well be, to add more speculation, that they lived in the ark for a time after they “landed”, as they developed their new civilization…

        • Wes Edwards

          The answer as to why God would preserve such things when the written record is there is simple: Find me 100 Christians who agree exactly on what the Bible says despite it never changing. Better yet, find me 10 atheists who would even acknowledge that the event ever happened. It’s written down in the most accurate and best preserved book in human history and yet it’s still considered laughable by them to even reference it. Compound that by the fact that the Bible is very specific in saying that in the End of Days truth will be considered lie and lie to be truth. Also, in the NT it is said specifically that in the End of Days there will be scoffers who deny the very events of Noah’s flood. To all of those atheists, agnostics and other religious people, physical evidence may be the only thing they may consider acceptable as proof of God’s reality – if then – and short of Jesus’ glorious appearing they may never believe.

          • Chad Dolloff

            The bible never changing? Are you serious? Every time it was translated it changed. Every time someone decided certain books didn’t quite fit with their beliefs they were dropped from the bible and discarded. There are a lot of religious nuts on here who really need to do some research and actually educate themselves on what the “church” has force fed people for centuries all to control the masses and the wealth.

          • Justin Taylor

            There is at least one jesus born every day in Mexico….

        • Justin Taylor

          Maybe he signaled them by making a cloud go over them and that told Noah to leave the wood behind….or maybe god drew it in the mud?… just trying to help…

      • That_guy_that_did_that_thing

        Why would they need it again? God had already given his promise (via the rainbow) that he would never flood the earth again. As such, any rain would never be enough to require a boat.

        • Juanita Reynolds

          They needed the boat until new homes were built and food for the animals was replentished.

          • That_guy_that_did_that_thing

            Considering Noah let out a dove before everyone went on “Liberty Call” (US Navy joke), and the dove returned with a twig, it’s safe to say that there were plenty of trees and animal food around.

          • Justin Taylor

            The animals, who’s mates were slaughtered. Good plan.

        • Donovan Hurley

          I, for one, have been through floods and needed a boat. Just for clarification these floods were after the Noah flood.
          You are assuming they stayed there and settled as apposed to finding a more habitable area to rebuild in.

        • Justin Taylor

          Why didn’t he just tell Noah? Why did he have to make a cryptic rainbow? How did Noah know it wasn’t just a damn rainbow?

    • Tim Long

      John B true . But why the disbelief? Problem with religion is no one believes anymore

      • simpletony1

        Yes we do…and in large numbers. But the way is narrow

      • Lynda

        Wrong.

      • Kate

        ha ha
        ha
        ha…

    • Ron P.

      You would leave the wood behind if God told you to. He had just showed you his strength with 40 days and nights of rain that flooded the earth. You would be the biggest idiot ever born to disobey him.

      • Justin Taylor

        He does this a lot in Seattle. True story.

    • Charity Lucas

      Ararat was volcanic. No grazing land and no fresh water. Remember they had limited animals, or “beasts of burden.” It would have been more work to take the wood and haul it far enough to find a suitable place to stay then it was worth. Also, depending on climate and time of year, it’s possible that a wooden structure for shelter was, at the time, unnecessary.

    • Dan Weeks

      Noah did what God told him and God took care of him. What makes you think he couldn’t survive without chopping up their “lifeboat”? Maybe it needed to be abandoned and found to convince naysayers. (Think deeper.)

      • Juanita Reynolds

        Exactly!

      • linreis

        I think the Ark could not be found until we had the proper technology, in the end days.

        • Justin Taylor

          Where does it say in the bible that the ark will not be found til the ‘end days’?

          • linreis

            I don’t know that it does Justin. My comment was mine. I think that more and more of the Biblical events are now being proven, as our technology now allows…sorry you misunderstood

          • Justin Taylor

            Interesting. This whole “end of days” argument. How’s that working out? I mean, it’s been professed or announced I can’t even remember how many times over the last 40 years, but we still wake up the next day. And then they change their hypothesis to some other date in the future. It’s actually a brilliant postulation – “some” day, they will be right – the sun does not have an infinite lifespan, and even if by some chance the earth does survive the expansion of the sun as it slowly dies, the Milky Way galaxy is on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy, which the earth will almost certainly not survive.

            Wouldn’t it serve your better interests to be more worried about search for life on other planets to ensure the continuation of the species?

          • linreis

            Justin, I get my end of days info directly from the source: the bible…It has not given a date, and those who profess to know a date are what the bible calls ‘false prophets’. I do not believe them. However, the bible is constant on revealing events and happenings that foretell we are in the ‘end times’…you’d have to be a real fool not to believe that we are now experiencing some of those events…I fail to see anything in my comments here that warrant your critique or antagonism…if you have an original comment, please do so, but otherwise back off jack…

          • Justin Taylor

            Really? Please elaborate – I would absolutely LOVE to hear what events the bible is revealing that are foretelling the end of times..

          • linreis

            Dear ‘god’. if you are serious about hearing about events the Bible has predicted, its a fascinating research subject. I can tell from your posts you aren’t interested in learning anything, only trying to goad people trying to have a decent conversation on a topic that is one you don’t want to be the truth…it scares you a little doesn’t it? and your ego just can’t allow you to admit maybe there is a little something to GOD. not you, you are nothing, but THE God.

          • God

            No, what scares me is that there are this many brainwashed stupid people in the world who want to shove their fairy tales into everyone elses’ face, and who can’t take it when somebody talks back to them.

            And yeah, that seriously scares me.

          • linreis

            If you are that scared, perhaps you should try to sort the fairy tales from the real stuff…or maybe you have, and know the truth, just can’t bring yourself to admit it…you can call people names and try to belittle them, but it only makes you look desperate. People who believe are not afraid…LOL

          • God

            I think you’re setting a new level of stupid in this discussion. So you have that going for you, which is nice…I guess…maybe.

          • linreis

            right back at ya, there, ‘god’…LOL

          • God

            Want to buy my unicorn? I also have a map to a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow – I’m confident that it’s the same rainbow that Noah saw – I don’t have any proof whatsoever except that it says in the fairy tale book that Noah saw a rainbow after it stopped raining (which is exceptionally rare, btw) so I’m assuming this is THAT rainbow. I’ll let both go for pretty cheap – but cash only please.

          • linreis
          • God

            So your link didn’t work but I went ahead and looked up the foretelling of the biblical dooms day, and a little history on the the supposed prophecies from the bible – including ones that have supposedly happened, as well as ones left to happen.

            Here’s what I have to say: gullible.

            My unicorn is still for sale.

    • Juanita Reynolds

      Yeh of little, or no faith! The Ark was needed until new homes were built, and food was replinished. THINK!

      • John Jurik

        I was going to tell you to do the same.

    • dodger4754

      At 6,300 ft. elevation on a barren mountain, the area doesn’t appear to be very hospitable. With little or nothing in the way of transportation other than human “back-power” to carry anything away from the site, it seems pretty obvious that they abandoned the ark in order to search for a more habitable area in which to settle.

    • Lynda

      So who left it there and WHY did THEY leave it there? Your argument doesn’t HOLD WATER!

      • T Anne

        Ararat is a high mountain in a range of mountains……I would think after all the time they spent in that ark…..it was the last thing they would want to tote down that mountain side or any where else. I dare say most folks in those years never even lived in a house built with lumber…….Lots of them were nomadic and moved with the weather…..

    • Adrian Arnold

      the bible does not mention what noah did with the ark but it does say that upon leaving the ark noah and his family first made an altar and slaughtered one of each kind of animal in an offering to god then made their way to the foot of the mountain where they formed a settlement.

      • Justin Taylor

        So let’s get this straight. They took 2 of each animal, 1 of each sex, and then slaughtered 1 of each kind….

        So they made all animals extinct? Were they dinosaurs?

        • Frances Forman

          No. A common misconception is that there were only two of each animal etc.
          Genesis 7: 1-3, you will find that seven pairs of clean animals and a pair of unclean animals were to be taken on the ark along with seven of every type of bird, male and female.

          • Adrian Arnold

            the verses you are refering to read
            7: 2 of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee seven, each with his mate; and of the beasts that are not clean two,each with his mate.
            7: 3 of the fowl also of the air, seven, male and female; to keep the seed alive upon the face of the earth.

            yet further on in genesis this changes to
            7: 15 and they went in unto noah into the ark,two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.
            so some where between god telling noah to build the ark and the day of the flood, god appears to have changed his mind.
            these lines only appear in this form in the king james version of the bible which was translated from hebrew texts
            in early russian versions of the bible which were translated from much earlier aramaic texts the lines read
            of evey clean beast thou shalt take, each with his mate; and of the beasts that are not clean, each with his mate.
            and of the fowl of the air, male and female;
            so according to the KJV bible the aninals numbered either 14 of each pure beast 4 of each unclean beast and 14 of each bird, or (gen 7: 2-3) or 4 of each animal whether it was clean or unclean (gen 7: 15)
            or if you believe the earlier aramaic texts then only 2 of each animal went in
            if i was to believe either version as fact then i personally would go with the one that is atleast consistant with the numbers.

          • Justin Taylor

            Holy shi!tbirds….so that’s 16 of every animal… did anybody pack a shovel?

    • Justin Taylor

      Bonfire big. Show god we not F everything up this time.

  • thedude

    I don’t understand the purpose of this article. Is it to prove the existence of God or Jesus? I think it’s quite arrogant to claim it as Noah’s ark when nearly every other civilization has had a similar event in history. I’m not denying the flood happened, but how do we know that the objects found exclusively belong to Noah and not some other flood event? The universiality of the events are very evident. This link sums it up quite well: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100310091837AAEZNUB

    • That_guy_that_did_that_thing

      The point of the article is to prove that one more “story” in the Bible has been confirmed. If stories about Noah’s ark, the ten plagues in Egypt, the existence of MANY Biblical persons, etc can be proven via history and archaeology, then to dismiss the Bible as “fairy tales” or “mythology” would be wrong. If stories such as these are proven true, as most historians believe Jesus did exist, then further research into Jesus’ claims of being God can be examined.

      • LAF2012

        Jesus Christ NEVER claimed to be God he is the son of God and always did the Father’s Will. He was one in purpose with God but not literally God and today seated at the right hand of God is exactly what it means…seated at the right hand not in Gods seat. If you have seen me you have seen the Father… means knowing Jesus Christ how he loved, forgave sins and healed the sick etc…made know to God’s people the very essence of the loving heart of God Almighty. NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANYTIME… the son of God has made known God on the level of the 5 senses man by being a man…for there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus..

        • Wes Edwards

          You may want to consider actually reading the Bible and not just randomly use words you found between the covers to create a false Jesus you can put in a box. You sound more like you’ve been reading the Qu’ran than the Holy Bible of the Judeo-Christian faith.

        • That_guy_that_did_that_thing

          Are you serious? There is NO WAY a person could possibly make such a ridiculous claim. You really need to try reading your Bible more.

      • Juanita Reynolds

        May I also add, this Ark was found in 1959. Kennedy’s era. Several years of study, proof found, and America’s big time problems, NEEDS a little jolt for us to remember His promises are true. In Matthew Jesus says, ‘Verily I say into you, Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till it all be fulfilled.’ With some 60 plus years since this discovery, WE need a renued faith course. God said it. I believe it. That settles it!! We really need to nenew

    • Juanita Reynolds

      Tell me more about ‘similar events’ and ‘other flood’. When and where in the Bible, or other ancien thistory are there mentions of a ‘world flood’??

    • linreis

      arrogant is not a word I would use here. perhaps a study of the bible, and the use of the facts that are available would be helpful for you to understand the article…or even just read the entire article…the location, the dimensions, the findings all lead to the Ark…why is it that no one has problems believing in a caveman, but will fight tooth and nail about a religious artifact…

    • Geoff

      The flood was a universal flood that covered the entirety of the earth. The Bible says that only 8 people survived the flood and thus as all come from Adam, all also come from Noah. God spread the people out after the incident at the tower of Babel and so the truth of the flood spread throughout the earth as the people dispersed and now that story has been passed down through the ages.

  • P00dy

    The ark was so that people and animals could be saved from the destruction. So the one’s who were saved were the ones who needed to tell of the location. THAT was the big secret. The floods destroyed the rest of the people.

    • John Jurik

      So where did the different races come from?

      • Rhys

        Same place all the differing dog breeds came from, basically. Selective breeding caused by isolation of various people groups by language and geography. Just like all Dogs are inter breed-able, so are people, demonstrating that we are all one race. The oldest of us would then have had the genetic and epigentic potential of the whole race, and their offspring would have expressed then the ‘break-out’ ‘racial’ traits as influenced by the environment, geography, and their choice of partners/spouses Just like Darwin’s finches

        A finch is a finch is a finch.

        A person is a person, just some have bigger beaks!

        • Justin Taylor

          Selective breeding, that started with inbreeding from 4 “couples”. Uh-huh…do go on.

          • Elizabeth

            and the spirit came upon me and I was told there were spirits in this world and many slept with them and created giants and others upon the earth, God separated them by race and sent them out in the world to speak different languages

      • gingerpal

        Gosh, use your common sense. It seemed to the people of that time that the world was flooded, but it probably was not, just certain areas. There were plenty of people still surviving in unaffected areas. Stories from the bible just like any other story are prone to exaggeration. Just my humble opinion.

        • guitarplayingjesusfreak

          You use some common sense, God clearly states he destroyed the planet by flood. The different races more than likely came at the tower of Babel when God created the new languages.

          • Donovan Hurley

            I wonder about the word ‘World’ and how how an individual saw his world at the time oh Noah. It could be that a persons world was from the tops of the mountains around them and the valley they lived in, this would have been as far as they had ever traveled and as far as they could see. To the people of the time this could very well have been their entire world.
            It’s important to remember that God never once put pen to paper, the Bible is stories passed down from person to person verbally until which time they were written by people. Having been passed down like this it is very likely that parts of the story changed over time while the jist of the story remains.

          • dangerouspatriot

            Sorry to blow a hole in your beliefs but all of the stories of the Bible are inspired by God and His Words passed on by His prophets. You do get different perspectives, especially from the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who knew Jesus and they wrote down their experiences with him and what they saw with their own eyes. Everything in the Bible is true, you just have to believe and that’s what they call Faith.

          • Chad Dolloff

            Sorry to blow a hole in your beliefs but if all men came from Adam and Eve that would mean inbreeding and it is scientifically proven that such breeding leads to major defects and the human race would’ve died of long ago. Good grief!

          • Justin Taylor

            The story of Bambi is true also, if you believe it. You just have to have faith in cartoon animals….I can see now why you are confused…..

          • chamuiel

            i can see you are blind, as well as confused.

          • Adrian Arnold

            both the church and historians agree on one thing and that is when the new testament was written down. it was started about 50 years after the death of jesus and took about 50 years to complete. one other thing they agree on is that all of jesus’ disciples were dead before it was started so they couldnt have written them or even advised on them. and if the bible is really the work of god why did he leave it up to man to decide what was to go in it. there are many gospels that have been removed. or simply not included in the first place for instance the gospel of mary, the gospel of peter, the gospel of judas and about 20 more gospels. some still physically exist but most are only known about because they are mentioned in other historical sources or reffered to in the bible itself. and that was just within the first 300 years after the death of christ once you get to the middle ages even more is taken out or changed to suit the needs of the church at the time.

          • Sam Scott

            Your mislead, and confused.

          • Sam Scott

            Your making up your own ideas as to what happened! The Bible is true, verse by verse, word by word, letter by letter!

          • Donovan Hurley

            I am a believer and as far as I know Matthew, Mark, Luke and John didnt book passage on the ark.
            Your right, the biblical writings were inspired by God, but they were written by man and man isnt perfect

          • Sam Scott

            But man perfectly recorded God’s word and His mind and directive to man. He confirmed this millions of times from the beginning until now! He says Heaven and Earth will pass away but His word remains forever!!!!!!!!! If this wasn’t to His liking He would intervene by what’s at stake-men’s souls.

          • RLM357

            Donovam; Archeologists discover the so called Cave man remains and mush to their surprise they wer not adorned with Animal Skins as previously depicted by (guesstamation). they wre adorned with WOVEN Shirts that even had button holes! The Smithstonian panicked and gradually altered their displays in the Museum of natural History. They Chose Not to Immediately Update their descriptions of Man’s History. but ot slowly and gradually correct it. So you see Science is based upon an idea and is than used to proove it. Reality is based upon Evidence to explain and support it. ~Rick Magee, “MOLON LABE”

          • Justin Taylor

            What did they do with the “Made in China” tags?

          • dangerouspatriot

            gingerpal and guitar, read my post above and be enlightened like John Jurik. Enjoy and become educated and believers. God bless you all.

          • Kate

            Wow I can’t believe I never noticed the planet is gone

          • chamuiel

            kate, you would not notice that anything is gone, not even your brain.

          • Justin Taylor

            Um, “God” clearly states this? Or the gay monks who transferred the oral (pun intended) word to the written word?

          • Mary Balderson

            Yeah, because god talks to people all the time right ?

          • Sam Scott

            He can do whatever he wants, He has all power, we only got mouth and arrogance, thinking we know everything! Knowledge has become our weakness and demise!

          • Mary Balderson

            If he has all power and can do whatever he wants then he’s a sick sadistic god and I would never worship him. And ” Knowledge has become our weakness” << Thanks for the laugh !!!

          • chamuiel

            it does not take much to get the truly mentally ill laughing hysterically.

            You just proved that.

          • Mary Balderson

            I let go of my imaginary friends along time ago, Thanks!

          • chamuiel

            can you prove God does not? Show your proof, other than your mouth.

        • T Anne

          apparently there were caves found in the mountains in North America where all kinds of skeletons of animals were found…..even tho they did not live in mountainous areas……and the soil layers have all kinds of sea life mixed with other forms of life from on the land…….very hard to explain this without equating it with a universal flood.

          • Kate

            or is it

          • chamuiel

            it would be nice if you said one thing that was intelligible.

          • Chad Dolloff

            Its pretty easy to explain by the simple fact that the mountains used to be flat and were pushed up by tectonic forces.

          • Justin Taylor

            Or the fact that a lot of things happen in 6.5 billion years…..

          • Sam Scott

            Evolution is nothing but a fairytail with no proof! Never happened and is the spawn of men with agendas to convince the masses that God’s word is mythical stories! Well, if a person tested both sides without bias, creation is the Micheal Jordan, evolution is just sad in the (proof) area. It requires blind faith. Everything in the creation story is present today and plain to the human eye. Evolution requires you to TRUST the experts! Ha,ha,ha, and another one!

          • Justin Taylor

            :facepalm. Evolution is the fairy tale? Let’s see here, millions upon millions of years of evolution, fossils, traits, the ability to genetically modify and make recedent traits show back up. Or…a magic man in the sky made everything, killed everything, made everything again, killed some of them, moved them around, confused them, and then just sat back and watched….

            Riiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttttttt…… but evolution is the fairy tale. Uh-huh.

          • chamuiel

            evolution is a fairytale

            if it is not, then where is the missing link?

          • Justin Taylor

            Quick – go check a mirror!

          • Justin Taylor

            What missing link is that you are referring to? The common ancestor? You think that’s missing?

          • Kate

            cant tell if troll or stupid

            Sir, I must digress, the proof of evolution is quite outstanding.

          • chamuiel

            outstanding in lies.

            yep.

          • Adrian Arnold

            in 2004 a tsunami hit india, after the flood waters had reseeded sealife that had been carried in the tsunami were found as high up as four stories in some buildings. and in historical terms the 2004 tsunami about medium sized. and as chad pointed out mountains never start out as mountains they grow over hundreds of thousands of years either through tectonic plates pushing together or volcanic build up. there have also been several ice ages and when glacier advance they pick up everything in their path, then as they melt and reseed they leave all that stuff behind.

          • Sam Scott

            That’s as fake as evolution! Because it comes from evolution. Ice ages, cave men all fake lies by the Devil. We talk about how God works what about the Devil. He’s a liar the Bible says and deceives the world and like the Garden, uses other men to decieve other men! If God is real beware because Satan is real. And he fools people about only 1 thing and that is convincing men like in the Garden that God didn’t say what He said, in fact that’s not God’s word, men said it!!! Same lie from the Garden read it and KNOW you’ve been jerked your whole life. Don’t listen no more. Trust God and His word. He loves and wouldn’t dare lie to you ever!!!!!!!!!

          • Justin Taylor

            You know, what would you do if Jesus and Satan came back and here, and Satan said “Yeah, we were just f’ing with ya – I wrote the bible. I mean, you all though God wrote it??LOL He’s the most powerful being the f’ing universe and you think he gives two snotwhacks about you? LOL”

            You’re trusting something solely on the basis that it says “Trust me.” I guess that proves god was jewish…..

          • chamuiel

            sick, sick puppy

          • Justin Taylor

            See: Gullible.

          • chamuiel

            you, yes!

        • RLM357

          God’s World is a marvelous thing. Back in the early times the Earth was encased in a cacoon. so to speak. Oxygen pressure was prevalent and our Human Oxygen content was much higher than today’s. Atlantis was spoken of as a Highly Advanced island. For some reason they decided to fire a missile upwards and penetrated the Cacoon or embryonic capsulation. That cansed the Oxygen to rapidly combine with hydrogen and produced copius amounts of Rain and lowered the Oxyen levels, that finally stabelized after a period of time. I do not write in chronologic format so if one combines this “Theory” with that of the Bible, a corelation arises,
          I write as food for thought for something for you to ponder. ~Rick Magee, “MOLON LABE”

          • Clayton Holloway

            Nigga you just went full retard. lol :P

          • chamuiel

            infantile name caller.

            pulled your pants up, lately?

          • Sam Scott

            Nice fantasy but no proof, just believing in fables as God said would happen in the last days! Last days are approching for man to rule God’s planet, thank you! Christ is coming to rule His planet and right all the wrongs put away man’s destruction and listening to the liar-Devil who is just tricking eveyone! He said when the son of man returns will He find faith on the earth! No! Just a bunch of skeptics and atheists today! Satan has done a nutjob on these decieved foolish people.

          • chamuiel

            been on the sauce, long?

        • chamuiel

          apparently, not humble enough.

      • Herb Saron

        I’m not very good with the bible but I do know the story. Noah, his family and his son’s families survived. Nimrod “the horned hunter” I believe was one of Noah’s grandchildren. He’s the one who married his own mother and made men build a huge tower that would reach the heavens, or so he believed. GOD was not happy with this and gave man different tongues. As the story goes, this is how nations and different languages were made as they scattered around the world. Also one of Noah’s son, Nimrod’s uncle decapitated him out of disgust for what he has done.

        • RLM357

          Herb: You know Greek Mythology has a story for everything. They actually explained that question of racial colors as when the caldren of Life was stirred over the fire, those that were closest to the side of the Caldren were burned or blackened. The ones further away were without color Thus, they explained away things (Myths) to their children. Cults have similar teachings. The Greeks also Identified most astral constellations as figures and gave them names.. ORION, Caseopea, Ursa Major and Minor. etc. ~Rick Magee, “MOLON LABE”

      • T Anne

        Over time people took on the look of their environment where they lived etc. You live near the Equator, you tan and tan and tan……..you live in the cold region, clothes cover you whole body and you are pale skin….. Not a problem to figure that out.

        • Kate

          Sorry I don’t think that’s how evolution works but I’m probably wrong you should look it up and correct me please and thanks

          • chamuiel

            shhhh!

        • Justin Taylor

          So black people are just really tan? And white people aren’t tan. But native americans and asians are ‘kinda’ tan? This evolution thing kicks @ss!

      • Daniel Carter Jr.

        Noah’s three sons, Ham, Shem, and Japeth. Ham’s descendants mainly migrated to Africa, the Black man. Shem’s went on to Asia, the Orientals, and Japeth’s stayed in the Middle East and went to Europe. Rhys is right, different climates, and they adapted.

        • Adrian Arnold

          so how does the story of noah explain cultures that predate the torah and tannak (old testament or jewish bible to the uneducated) by thousands of years that survived not just up to but beyond the flood. to name but a few the incas, aborigines, inuit (eskimo) native indians of america. even places such as china, russia, europe, britain and africa can trace civilised populations much further back than biblical times without any globally catastrophic flood.

          • Kate

            farther back than biblical times but that’s not possible are you saying the earth is millions of years old?? how dare you, athetits

          • chamuiel

            adrian arnold has tits?

            really? how do you know that? Do you two trolls work out of the same office?

            Or, did word policegirl just mispell another word?

      • dangerouspatriot

        The explanation for where did all the different races come from is in the Bible, Genesis, Chapters10(The Table of Nations) and 11(The Tower of Babel). In these chapters God shows the lineage of Noahs sons and what their descendants became and the Tower of Babel explains how the human race was scattered all over the world. Read, my friend and be enlightened. It’s all right there in the Bible, everything you ever wanted to know about where we came from.

        • Justin Taylor

          Does he give the dinosaur lineage? Cuz that would be so cool…..

          • Kate

            Dinosaurs are just a myth their bones are a test from god geez libtard

          • chamuiel

            so, says the troll.

          • chamuiel

            Nah, he left that screwup to the smithsonian?

            Did you know they put the dianosaur bones together wrong?

      • William Richardson

        The different races came during the time of the Tower of Babel. God didn’t like what was going on so he confused the languages and created all the different races also. It is in the book of Genesis Chapter 11.

        • Justin Taylor

          So first he created Adam and Eve…who apparently F’d everything up, and somewhere Noah came along and everybody else was F’ing everything up, and then Noah saved everything, but then they F’d everything up again, and god got tired of having to re-do everything because they were all a bunch of F ups, so he just confused them and spun them around in circles. Or maybe gave them roofies, I’m a little confused here…..

          • Sam Scott

            Joke as you will but there is no physical reason to why we speak different languages! Everything in this place is all miracles that’s the proof of God, His creation including you and me!

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, except for that whole separated by continents thing…and they didn’t have cell phones…

          • chamuiel

            dumb, and dumber.

          • chamuiel

            justin, i think you have been confused all of your life.

      • RLM357

        BABAL.

      • RVNMike

        Beastiality.

      • Wes Edwards

        I would hope your mother or father would’ve had this conversation with you by now, John. ;)

      • Wes Edwards

        The real answer probably has more to do with basic genetics than we realize or give credit for. In my opinion, the reason we have different ‘races’ today is b/c of things like geographic isolation and restricted gene pools. When you limit the potential genetic differences between mates you begin the process of eliminating certain genetic characteristics from the group. Meaning, when a group isolates themselves either physically or virtually from other people and then only marry/procreate within that isolated group you stop having new or different genetic traits re-enter the group. So whatever dominant and recessive traits exist within the group are the only ones possible going forward. This method of isolation and selection limiting the gene pool then naturally causes the generations that follow to have more and more similar features until at some point there is an overwhelming resemblance between them that is substantially different than the people groups they are not procreating with. When you further compound the situation by coupling what one group has decided is attractive or desirable then you have a further shaping of the ‘race’. With all of that said, I believe God addressed the issue with Noah and his family in the same way He addressed it with the animals. If you start with a human or animal higher up in the genetic isolation process you have more genetic possibility built into their genome. So in other words, if God chose Noah’s family b/c they possessed that quality then all of the subsequent generations had more possible genetic combinations to then isolate. Also, we have no reasonable expectation to assume that just b/c Noah lived in the Middle Eastern area geographically that he looked like a modern day Arab. Or that any of his family or daughter-in-laws looked like such. The family could’ve been comprised of widely varying physical feature sets – different skin colors, different hair types, different body and facial features. The possibilities are not limited by the events of Noah’s ark. Rather they become even more plausible! Hope this helps. :)

  • John Jurik

    Hey Joe, you’re an idiot.

    http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

    • http://underthegunreview.net/ Jacob Tender

      Thank you. Folks are quick to believe just about anything these days.

    • linreis

      unfortunately, snopes is not the go to, fail proof site it used to be…I find it hilarious that people take the ‘word’ of a site online with no question, but refuse to acknowledge a possible religious artifact…

      • MS Steel Magnolia

        True! I find it sad they take the words online as truth but not the BIBLE.

        • Adrian Arnold

          and yet here you are taking words online as truth. so does that make the online word truth. or does it make it sad that you only accept the online word as truth because it fits your idealogical version of the truth

    • MS Steel Magnolia

      John if you believe anything snopes records as true or false then I feel sorry for you. The people who own snopes are die-hard Obama supporters by word and money…….therefore everything posted in a bad light about Obama they will say it is false. I don’t trust anything they say.

      • EnuffBull

        Nope. You lie.
        http://snopes.com/info/aboutus.asp
        Now to twist your words:

        “If you believe anything Joe The Plumber (a known tax evader, liar and propagandist) records as true or false then I feel sorry for you. The people who own Joe For America are die-hard Koch Brother lackeys by word and money…….therefore everything posted in a bad light about Republicans/Conservatives/Tea Partiers they will say it is false. I don’t trust anything they say.”

    • Wes Edwards

      Maybe wanna look in the mirror before posting such a comment?

  • Bill Chilton

    HOAX! If you people believe this “story”, then I’ve got some land I want to sell ya! LOL Metal detectors to find it? LOL there was no metal use at the time the ark was “suppose” to have been built! The reason you have heard nothing of this “discovery” is simply because its nothing. Maybe Noah built a spaceship instead? LOL

    • Michael Mlyniec

      Right, and spraying chemicals are good, the FED works for us, Obama is a messiah, Obamacare is for the people, guns kill people, gun laws protect citizens. I forgot that everything governments tell us are true. Way to have a brain and think for yourself.

      • Justin Taylor

        oh…you had me right up to that whole obama is the messiah thing…

    • Juanita Reynolds

      Did you bother to read the article? Jesus even said there will always be unbelievers! You my friend need to pray for Devine Guidence! Read More!

      • John Jurik

        Who is Devine and what is “Guidence”? And how did 8 people repopulate the planet?

        • Juanita Reynolds

          God’s Wod is Devine He is our Guidence. He puts a love for Him in your heart!

        • manikajo

          But I bet you believe you crawled out of the ocean and turned into a human.

          • Justin Taylor

            Well, I personally didn’t crawl out of the ocean..I think I crawled out of a barrel once, but that’s a different story… But my great ^2.499E100 grandpa said he did, but he wrote it on the beach, and then it rained…yeah, didn’t work out so well for his book i guess…

        • Rhys

          Well, let’s just imagine and throw some numbers out there, just spit ball.

          If Noah’s boys had reasonable but large families (frontier America style), say 12 kids each, and suffered the world standard childhood mortality rates, 50%, then 6 lived to adulthood. If each of those six (for a total of 18) reproduced in the same manner with the same level of child death, then after only 13 generations, the world population would be +6.5 billion.

          If we assume a Biblically conservative timeline since the Flood of +/-4500years, and a 20 year generation, that would come to a very feasible 225 Generations, more than more than enough time to account for plagues, smaller families, etc, and still explain our current population.

          • Justin Taylor

            You forgot to account for the genetic inbred deficiencies. Just saying.

          • Adrian Arnold

            assuming all of noahs sons had 12 children each. 3 sons x 12 children = 36 allowing your 50% childhood morbidity rate leaves 13 if we allow for an almost equal number of male to female that gives 6 families so now we have 6 x 12 – 50% = 36 you also calculated a 20 year generation factor so the population is in effect doubling every 20 years which if you calculate it then after 4500 years the population would be about 6.5 billion, but at the same time the oldest members of that population would be over 4500 years old. you need to go back and factor in an average lifespan of 65 years then you would get a figure closer to 351 million.

        • Mack

          The same way 3,000 North American buffalo turn into 250,000 within a time span of 150 years: They procreate. Duh?

        • Chad Dolloff

          Inbreeding of course and we all know how healthy that is.

    • linreis

      iron was used. nails were used. …metal…

      • Justin Taylor

        Yes, because iron and titanium were well known metals at that time.

    • Wes Edwards

      It may do you some good to actually do a little research before posting a comment like that. Saying something wasn’t possible when it not only was possible but entirely probable takes away from any credibility and intelligence your argument may have had. :(

  • John Jurik
    • linreis

      one had the help from God, the other was owned by a person who denied the power of God.

    • Holden

      What I find hilarious about this picture is that the Titanic was destroyed on it’s first voyage after scraping against an iceberg, and many people said that “Not even God could sink it”, but the Bible says that 8 people who had Faith in God survived a worldwide flood and storms in this boat, yet made it to land completely safe. Come on, people! Those who trust in the LORD will be taken care of! The Bible has been proven by history before.

      • Justin Taylor

        So a book on supposed history has been ‘proven’ by supposed history….Yeah, I know that’s not what you mean…but. I think it’s odd that you rely on science to prove biblical history, but if science says anything else, it’s just a bunch of bunk. Seems legit.

    • Rhys

      The Titanic was a luxury liner with fancy-shmancy dining room and galleries and huge engines. That, and depending on what the cubit Noah used, ‘natural’, Egyptian, Sumerian, whatever. That changes the view of the potential size of the rig dramatically.

    • Wes Edwards

      How about the same in return? You don’t know any of the animal-related items in the ‘capacity’ section to be true in the slightest. You have no evidence to support the claim that 50,000+ animals or 2,000,000+ insects or any number of any other creature for that matter were required to be on the ark. Just b/c you don’t know how something was done doesn’t mean it had to happen the only way you can imagine it.

  • Donna McNamara

    Its too bad people can’t open their minds up just a little bit and enjoy the possibility. Maybe it is the ark and maybe it isn’t. The possibility is what’s fascinating.

    • John Jurik

      Fascination is one thing. Delusion, which this is, is a whole other thing.

      • Holden

        I assume you are Atheist and believe that we came from primates and the world just randomly exploded into existence. Yeah, that really makes sense, but the fact that a higher being created us all in His Great Plan doesn’t. <–*Sarcasm*. You can at least be open to the possibility that God exists! I'll be praying for you.

        • Justin Taylor

          Wow. Just….wow.

        • Seth

          lol. Because if you aren’t Christian you must be Atheist. Nice logic. Good thing you were raised with the “correct” religion. GOD forbid you were raised in the middle east on Muslim principles, or in India on Hindu principles, or maybe Asia on Buddhist principles. It’s comical when Liberals and Conservatives argue, but when Christians are ignorant unfortunately it’s business as usual. As for this article? I approach it like I do everything, with an open mind.

          • disqus_Ed8LYkU7q2

            Yes, it IS good that Holden wasn’t born in the islamic world of murdered and taken-over populations and destroyed cultures. That is why islam has spread all over the world, as it is spreading more by murdering Christian populations that have lived in the middle east for hundreds or thousands of years. Thanks all to OUR islamic communist puppet regime’s support of money and weapons. But don’t worry, it isn’t only Christians being murdered, but those of the far east too.

          • etoyep

            Hundreds of thousands of years, you say?

          • chamuiel

            muslim religion is a religion of the devil.

        • ROYSTOLL2

          They have recently found actual proof that the Red Sea parted when Moses and his followers were being chased by the Romans. They have found pieces and fragments of chariots and skeletal remains of horses at the location where it occured. It is pretty hard to contest things like this and the other related things that are cropping up.

          • Brownthumb

            You have no clue at all do you? Moses chased by Romans? That’s a joke right? That should be Egyptians, and since both horses and chariots were transported by ship, it is in no way surprising the evidence of such is found. There is no evidence supporting an entire army being lost under that sea. Also, the Egyptians kept very concise records and there is no evidence supporting an entire race of Hebrew slaves ever having been in Egypt.

          • chamuiel

            they would have been ashamed to admit they lost an entire army, so it would have been scrubbed from official records.

          • Brownthumb

            Scrubbed? LMAO, the records for grain purchases, food crops, slave purchases are what don’t show the existence of a race of Hebrew having been in Egypt. It has nothing do with scrubbing the record of an army. On that score, you reference chariot and horse remains in your claims, yet only a small amount, nothing to show evidence of an army. I guess you claim the Egyptians were so embarrassed they scrubbed the sea floor of human remains, armor, weapons and anything else you’d expect to find were an entire army drowned there. What a joke. You only see and accept evidence you can twist to support what you want and ignore anything else. Sad.

          • Roy Mallmann

            Yes, You are right about the Pharoh and the Egyptians were chasing the Hebrew slaves. Sorry, I was speaking from memory. They have found wreckage of what they have identified as a line of chariots and other archives such as military weapons of the era.. The thing about Christianity, you can dispute these events but evidence just keeps cropping up, time and again. Sorry about my inacuracies.

          • Brownthumb

            Those claims you speak of are a joke, just as is this claim on the ark. The first people to study it said ‘natural formation’, then along comes this guy, he reads what he wants into it, calls it the ark, finds iron objects and instead of saying “no iron existed in Noah’s time so this can’t be the ark”, suddenly (despite there being zero mention in the bible of it) Noah was blessed with the knowledge of this metal. Yet if Noah had the knowledge and survived, why did the knowledge disappear? Oh, that’s right, it’s because he never existed and this isn’t the ark, which is why just a few short years ago Christian organizations were still funding expeditions searching for the ark, even to the point of advancing known hoaxes as evidence. It’s such a joke and a sad play on the gullibility of others. It’s sad really.

            If the global flood story is true, as it would have to be for the ark to be real, why is there no evidence of any global flood having ever happened? A year long flood would have made a rather obvious layer in ice cores and dig sites, yet none exists. You people keep saying your god wants people to find and follow him, yet he hides himself away, using a conflicting and evil book as his word, and offers zero evidence of his existence.

      • Wes Edwards

        What an ignorant thing to say. Clearly, you’ve done your research and have come to such an unavoidable conclusion by the sheer volume of evidence and intense critical analysis. Oh wait, you didn’t do any research? You just opened your mouth and that comment fell out? Figures…

      • Lynda

        RIght. It’s some other ancient boat… just like an ark! LOL

        • Kate

          Please stop saying LOL, I’m sure it’s paining others as well as myself.

          • Lynda

            NO! LOL

          • Lynda

            Put a Band Aid on if it’s painful! LOL LOL LOL

          • Kate

            lololol ur 2 funni

          • Lynda

            That’s my job! “Lots Of Love” to you and Merry Christmas! :)

          • Kate

            Ah, you do win with that pun. Happy holidays!

          • Lynda

            Better to laugh it off than cuss ‘em out! :)

          • Me

            Merry Christmas Kate

          • Kate

            no u

          • chamuiel

            no, you word policegirl.

          • chamuiel

            Nope, Merry Christmas.

          • Paul Walker Texas Ranger

            Lynda why are you saying LOL so much

          • chamuiel

            uh, funny is spelled f-u-n-n-y, word policeman, uh policegirl.

          • RVNMike

            LOL :-)

          • Lynda

            Love Only Licorice!

          • Paul Walker Texas Ranger

            Lots Of Love!

          • Kate

            Laugh Out Loud!
            oh…

          • chamuiel

            everytime you post something, i do.

          • Me

            LOL

          • Kate

            laaaaaawwwl

          • Lynda

            Little Old Ladies…

          • shamu9

            Yup!!-LOL- ‘Little Ole Lady’!!As in the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers-”Zap Comics” [Fritz the Cat" et.al.], when “Free-Wheelin’ Franklin” put on the LOL disguise , and “Fat Freddie” put on a fur coat pretending to be a dog, so they could Fly Home Cheap! The “Freak Bros.” are the characters on the poster, with “Phineas” giving the ‘Peace Sign’, “Freewheeling Franklin”, giving the Bird ‘FINGER’, and “Fat Freddie’ giving the ‘Power to the people’ Fist. Find ‘em at a Comics Shop. You’ll Laugh till ya Fall Down!

          • chamuiel

            i am sure many things pain you.

            however, you pain us.

      • Robert Reeves

        Delusion? I think not. Several different geologists have already proven that a very long time ago in the middle east that an extremely wide spead flood did indeed happen. They have even figured out a time line. I don’t remember what it was, but I do recall that it was several thousand years ago. If the flood is true, then why can’t the ark be true. Open your mind.

        • T Anne

          Not just the middle east, but on this continent also, skeletons of all kinds of mammals mixed in with sea life are found in extremely high places……and we do know there is evidence of part of the American west being a large body of water.

          • disqus_IK4JLhzYdo

            I saw a fossil of a seahorse in/on a canyon wall in Salt Lake City once. So the water was at least 5000 ft higher at one time than it is right now…

          • Kate

            Oh yeah, there’s these plates see, and they move and stuff. You know, earthquakes. Oh, and volcanic activity. Science, it’s cool man.

          • RVNMike

            You cloak yourself with the ignorance of science.

          • Kate

            Wait wait, I’m confused here, are you saying I’m ignorant of science or that science is ignorant? Please specify, good sir.

          • chamuiel

            science is cool.

            you are ignorant.

          • Martin Fredin

            So if you believe in science you’re ignorant but if you believe in god you’re what…,enlightened?

          • chamuiel

            no, saved.

          • chamuiel

            too bad you don’t understand it.

          • Harvey Melton

            such as the formation of grand canyon there is evidence that a massive volume of water formed these canyons through erosion. and fossil evidence has been found all through them of ancient sea life.

        • Justin Taylor

          Well, it cant be over 6000 years ago, cuz several christian bands have distinctly stated the world has only existed for 6000 years. It’s written somewhere..so it must be true.

          • Melanie Haywood Gilbert

            I don’t know why anyone would say the world is only 6000 years old. Day and night as we know it were not created until the third or fourth day according to the bible so that tells us our timing is not the same as God’s timing. .

          • Jim Gorman

            Actully they say 10,000 years

          • Elizabeth

            Gods time and our time are not the same

        • Kate

          See, there was this thing called the ice age. And I’m guessing all the ice melted since it’s not here any more. I dont know though, I may be wrong.

          • RVNMike

            Global warming?

          • Kate

            Shhhh don’t say such things here, it isn’t safe

          • chamuiel

            I thought global warming is passe.

            aren’t we now back to global cooling like we were in the 1970′s?

          • Clayton Holloway

            So these seahorses and mammals were “living” alongside each other… in the ice? Sounds legit.

          • Mary Balderson

            Makes about as much sense as all the mammals living alongside each other on a boat….

          • Clayton Holloway

            If you think so you have much larger issues. lol wow

          • Jim Gorman

            Ice age was about 10,000 years ago

          • Clayton Holloway

            Point?

          • rchguns

            Now listen Al Gore it was global warming

          • Elizabeth

            Al Gore is a loony toon, but he made millions on his theorys

          • Jim Gorman

            The ice age that made the great lakes only went as far south as the ohio valley.

          • chamuiel

            and that proves what?

            A day to god is not a day to us.

            Are you trying to be sarcastic, again?

            keep trying. You may learn how yet.

          • Justin Taylor

            And you know this how exactly? Magic underwear tell you?

          • Elizabeth

            actually science has investigated it, because of the difference of the earth to the heavens time is slowed down above, so Gods time is thousands of years to one day of ours here on earth

          • Justin Taylor

            I’m assuming you’re kind of using the theory of relativity here, right? And that’s assuming that ‘heaven’ is a physical place, with a physical distance from Earth.

            Believe it or not – I’m actually trying TRYING to be nice in this reply.

            It’s when something is traveling where the theory of relativity suggests a displacement of time. So, if god is in a physical place – heaven – and Earth is in a physical place – here…and yes, the Earth is moving, but not really away from or towards heaven (sorry, I have no idea how to make sense of that). So there relative motion is essentially unchanged. For time dilation to occur, according to the theory of relativity – there must be either a gravitational difference with a direct relationship to the amount of time dilation, OR a relative difference in velocity. I’m not sure how anyone could derive either.

        • Martin Fredin

          And the fact that there was a flood proves god’s existence how exactly? Thailand ’04 and Japan ’10 just to mention recent ones.

          • Clayton Holloway

            How does a flood in a small part of a country equate to global flooding again? I think you left out a huge part of your argument.

          • mperkins2

            It sure proves that God’s Word (the Bible for those who don’t know) is a book of facts not the superstitious nonsense that nonbelievers think it is. Maybe you should consider that if this event is true in the Bible just maybe there are other truths in there. These recent day floods were nothing compared to the flood in Noah’s day which covered the whole earth. You should try to actually read the Bible before you pass judgment on what is inside of it. It will show you the truth if you are willing to accept it. Those who studied the Bible such as Columbus realized that the earth was round not flat as it says in Isaiah 40:22 “It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…”. There are truths just waiting to be plucked out of it by those who hunger for the truth. Try it before you knock it.

          • chamuiel

            probably, you will never understand.

      • rchguns

        why is it.

      • Bill

        You are a tard !!! Why do you think she is delusional ??? Just because she believes in god ???? Just because you dont. My grandfather knew an athiest in WWII he caught the guy praying to god during an artillary attack in the Ardennes —— Their are no athiests in foxholes !!!!!!

      • chamuiel

        where is your proof, other than your mouth?

    • Elizabeth

      God is in his heaven

  • http://underthegunreview.net/ Jacob Tender

    It’s amazing how junk like this is spread. Check Snopes before you share, folks. It takes 10 seconds. http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

    • linreis

      …and of course, Jacob, you take the word of snopes without a blink of an eye…LOL amazing for sure.

    • grannie

      I will take the Word of God over any snopes report/article, whatever, any day.

      • Justin Taylor

        You do realize the news reports aren’t the word of god, right?

        • grannie

          Of course they are not. Neither are the snopes articles. I will depend on Genesis 6:12-22.

    • Holden

      Yeah, you criticize us Christians for believing the Bible, which has been around for WAAAAY longer than Snopes, but you take that stupid website’s word without a second thought.

      • Adrian Arnold

        using that argument hindu texts were around for a couple of thousand years before the torah (old testament) was written so why are you not worshiping krishna and several other gods.

    • MS Steel Magnolia

      You have got to be kidding. Snopes is not right with true or false. Check the Bible first.

      • Adrian Arnold

        ye check the bible first, it tells you that the first thing noah did after leaving the ark was to kill one of every kind of animal from the ark as an offering to god. now im not an expert in breeding animals so please explain how he manged to breed the ones that were left.

        • DanielB04

          The Bible also says that Noah took seven of every “clean” animal, so there could still be 3 breeding pairs left.

          Of course, it still seems irresponsible to slaughter critically endangered species.

          • Adrian Arnold

            depends which bible you read in early aramaic texts it say he took one of every amimal plus a mate so only two of each animal. if you are going to read a book its best to read every version of the book

    • Wes Edwards

      Wow, I’m glad Snopes is there for us in our time of need. Why, without Snopes we might believe all sorts of things! Tell us the earth is a sphere? Nope, I checked Snopes just this morning! The 44th president of the United States can’t tell the truth to save his life? Nope, we’re all just confused b/c according to Snopes he’s the epitome of truth and grace. Yep, I sure am glad Snopes is there for me. They just saved me from having to put more than 10 seconds worth of research into this investigation and I didn’t have to think critically about it even once. Yay, Snopes!

  • patriciamlewis

    All reputable scientists and archaeologists have rejected multiple claims by the late Ron Wyatt.

  • Manny Panning

    1 ) The cubit is an inexact measure, being the length from a man’s elbow to the tip of his middle finger, anywhere from 17-22 inches.you figure out how much variance those five inches place on the “exact” measurements of the ark, because….what was the length of Noah’s forearm from his elbow to the tip of his middle finger?

    2 ) The ark, as described, is physically too small to hold two of every animal.

    3 ) How, exactly, did the platypus get to Australia? How did the lemurs get to Madagascar? How did animals native to small and/or isolated geographic areas get there?

    4 ) Where is the objective evidence that there was ever a global flood as described in the bible?

    Deal with and respond to those points, then you can crow about Noah’s ark.

    • MS Steel Magnolia

      You are sad. Apparently you do not believe in God???? Do you not believe God is stil performing miracles and perhaps made some animals that did not exist before Noah’s Ark? God can do anything.

      • Walrus

        if god can do anything, why wont he do something?

      • Manny Panning

        First, prove any god, your’s included exists. Provide objective evidence. “Objective” means that the conclusion drawn from the evidence will not be influenced by personal considerations, and the conclusion is the only one available.

    • Justin Taylor

      1) Noah was known to have exceptionally long arms.
      2) 16 of each animal. And 7 of each bird or something. Nobody said anything about bugs.
      3) Duh, they rode the rainbows. Pay attention, these are biblical scholars you’re talking with.
      4) It’s in the bible, duh. Geesh. It’s like you’re not even trying….

  • Gail Lane

    Everyone has a opinion. Whether to believe or not is your issue. But i think it was interesting. If you walk out side God is everywhere. Too bad the sheep are following satan to there death.

    • Justin Taylor

      dammit..now I have to go put the sheep in the barn again…stop telling my sheep to follow satan…geesh, how’d you know I have a blind horse named satan anyway? Spooky.

  • white531

    I thought the story was interesting. I believe I was the first to read it, but then I have been gone all day. I am amazed to come back here in the evening, and witness such turmoil and disagreement, over something so simple as the discovery of Noah’s Ark.

    For the record, I believe there is enough historical evidence to prove there was such a thing as Noah’s Ark. Indeed, History is full of it. This gentleman has obviously devoted a lot of time to this, with some pretty good scientific results.

    What exactly is it, about our current population, that feels it their duty to disprove the existence of God? It baffles me. If you don’t believe in God, or His Son, or Noah’s Ark, why don’t you just ignore it, and go on about your lives? Why do you feel it necessary to take time out of your day, to fight the idea that there was a Creator?

    Why do people who believe in that, somehow threaten your existence? We are not in your face with it, the way you are, with homosexuality in ours. We simply believe what we believe. And you are somehow threatened by that. If you are an intelligent person, you know what that means. It means you are not only uncomfortable with our position, which we are perfectly happy with, but it means that you are also uncomfortable with yours.

    All of you who don’t believe in God, or the existence of Jesus, or even Noah’s Ark, I would ask you this simple question. How did you get here? What happenstance of the Cosmos, allowed you to take your first breath, and then look into your Mother’s eyes, for the first time, and realize you were actually a living, breathing thing?

    I know, its a tough question. Take all the time you want to answer.

    • Buck Fachmann

      People are free to believe whatever they so desir